#numbercollectionsmustfall : PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

[Andrew mclean]

Hello all,

 

I agree with you that the current system of driving to Cycle Lab, does not work!!!

 

I have said this before.

 

Traffic is insane and everyone is timed deprived.

 

It is not feasible to have race pick up at multiple venues on the same day. [For many logistical reasons]

 

We do always try get organizers to have at least 2 possibly 3 pick up options, at different venues.

 

We always try to get event organizers to have a on the morning pick up for out of town people.

 

In fact we often collect numbers for cyclists who simply cannot make it to pick up.

 

We have been discussing alternatives with event organizers and role players,

 

For a while, however as you can see from the last 7 pages of debate it is not so simple;

 

What works for a small event [1000 riders possibly] simply will not work for a big event!

 

No particular order here are a few issues to be considered;

 

-Sponsors want their logos on the numbers

 

-Numbers cannot be printed on normal paper [paper tears/rain issues etc]

 

-Event organizers need Pre entries to plan-Coke, medals, cash flow etc. Especially big events. E.G. Hyper to Hyper would have catered for 8000 cyclists but only 2000 arrived on the day, this would be a financial disaster.

 

-Seeding changes weekly. So this needs to be considered with a one number system.

 

-In SA, more so than the rest of the world, cyclists look for loopholes to buck the system. Printing multiple numbers for mates, not paying and riding etc.

 

-Event organizers [mostly volunteers] cannot cope with thousands of people on race morning.

 

-A lot of the solutions require very good fencing [security] for start batches or seeding groups, something like Argus, however, Costs again are a problem for event organizers.

 

Multiple scanning mats at the start costs lots of money.

 

I am sure there are a whole host of other issues I have overlooked.

 

What works in other provinces will not necessarily work for us up, largely die to the big numbers. [Maybe a lot of the systems implemented up here in the past have worked well]

 

 

 

For smaller events there are definitely fairly easy-implemented solutions, however for our bigger fun rides there are challenges, not impossible but certainly need some careful thought.

 

 

 

Anyway I agree we need to change!

 

However if were so simple it would have already happened.

 

Be part of the solution and give us constructive ideas to help find a solution that works for everyone [Cyclists, Sponsors, officials, admin staff, volunteers]

 

Just remember you need to be able to think of the solution, not only from a cyclist?s perspective.

 

Andrew Mclean.

[mallo]

Example: In Gauteng(or nationally) Cyclelab/MTN/BPM/VUZI sponsors the race numbers for the year based on the CGC/CSA registrations database (GAU001: GN001:KZN001)(year band at the bottom) This number is registered against your timing chips(racetec, championchip,ss timing etc)hence the audit side of whether you entered a race or not is sorted as the updates will reflect on the race entry sheet.

 

The race sheet then gets grouped into your seeding pens start times where on the morning of the race you will sign in at the specific pen.

 

 

 

The seeding database will then take shape from this as cyclists will no longer cheat or ride without their chip as his/her results will not reflect on the systems.

 

 

 

Between the timing CO's/CSA/Cyclelab or other interested parties the database can be maintained at a small fee from the race entry.

 

 

 

This will need patience from the cyclist when they register as it will cost you a few minutes extra if done orderly.

 

 

 

Seeding ladders to be updated once the race organizers has paid the timing companies their share

[Andyr249]

I agree Andrew.

Possibly one of the easiest systems to implement would be either more collection points or else when you enter you select your preferred collection point.

For more collection points the organisers would need to plan for more days to collect numbers, for example on Wednesdays in Pretoria, Thursdays in Fourways and Fridays somewhere in the south of JHB. This would cater for a fair number of people who have to come from other areas to Fourways. In addition to that also have a collection on the morning of the race for the last few.

A chosen collection point when entering would be similar to the various collection points with the advantage of collection all being the same day. But would require a bit more care in making sure that the correct numbers go to the correct colelction points. Again you could have collection points in PTA, Fourways and the South but all on the Thursday or Friday. Maybe have the race day collection available for in case someone couldn't collection at their preferred point.

 

This would be easier to implement and would not require major chances. I think the main complaint is the location of collections. For the people staying in the northern area near Fourways it is great to have collection there. But for people from Pretoria or the South it is a hassle. By having multiple collection points you keeping more people happy.

[scotty]

I agree Andrew.

Possibly one of the easiest systems to implement would be either more collection points or else when you enter you select your preferred collection point.

For more collection points the organisers would need to plan for more days to collect numbers' date=' for example on Wednesdays in Pretoria, Thursdays in Fourways and Fridays somewhere in the south of JHB. This would cater for a fair number of people who have to come from other areas to Fourways. In addition to that also have a collection on the morning of the race for the last few.

A chosen collection point when entering would be similar to the various collection points with the advantage of collection all being the same day. But would require a bit more care in making sure that the correct numbers go to the correct colelction points. Again you could have collection points in PTA, Fourways and the South but all on the Thursday or Friday. Maybe have the race day collection available for in case someone couldn't collection at their preferred point.

 

This would be easier to implement and would not require major chances. I think the main complaint is the location of collections. For the people staying in the northern area near Fourways it is great to have collection there. But for people from Pretoria or the South it is a hassle. By having multiple collection points you keeping more people happy.

[/quote']

Orgs struggle to get volunteers to man a collection point as most have weekday jobs, finding extra volunteers to man multi area points will be difficult. scotty2010-02-05 07:48:31

[Thug]

I think that ones needs a combination of solutions to the problems presented.

 

 

 

For the serious racers that purchase their annual "racing" licence.

 

- CSA issues a "cloth" number (per province) and number board.

 

- These "cloth" numbers can have an sponsor's logo printed on them.

 

- Racers do not need to collect a race number for each and every event.

 

 

 

Yes, some might decide to ride a race without paying for the entry but that would be a small minority. If you are paying R300 + for a racing licence, you are generally going to be using it and not trying to get free entry into races.

 

 

 

 

 

For the Cyclosport rider and the fun rider who only enters the "Argus"/"94.7" etc:

 

 

 

- Designate an LBS as a collection point per area i.e - 4ways - CycleLab; North - Linden Cycles; Roodepoort - West Rand Cycles etc etc.

 

- When you enter online, you then select which area/lbs you will be collecting your race entry from.

 

 

 

Yes, it will mean a little more admin and perhaps the cut-off date for entries might need to be a day or two earlier but it should alleviate frustration at having to spend 4/5 hours in a car collecting numbers from a centralized area.

[Spinnekop]

Hi Andrew.

 

Thank you for the contribution to this thread.  Nice to see guys like you and Mr. Lemmer taking time to read through all this crap.

 

Your points are all valid but I am sure we can make some innovative plan.

 

My wife keeps BEATING me when I go "collect my number" because I always spend money on something. 

 

Seriously.  The traffic is a mess and sitting in it for 2 hours is not fun, as you will know.

 

I kind of like the idea of a "swipe your card" at the race start as a sort of a "sign in" where the number then gets printed right there and then.

Something similar to the self help stations at Sterkinekor.

 

It is going to have a bit of a capital outlay but I for one will be willing to fork out R250 for the race entry if I can print my number on race day.

 

Futuristic dream maybe...........

[kosmonooit]

Here's just a tip for u's coming from the East on the concrete highway to Cyclelabs in 4-ways: take the Rivonia Rd off ramp, right, underneath the highway then first left (I think its Witkoppen) carry on for a few k's eventually that will take you to the 4-ways where you just turn left to Cycle Lab complex just after that ?Montecasino monstrosity?

[Robbie]

Having an option to collect from your LBS gets my vote.

Or have an option of collecting from your cycling club - if they have admin capability eg Club 100 or Cycle Lab.

[Guest Agteros]

Having an option to collect from your LBS gets my vote.

Or have an option of collecting from your cycling club - if they have admin capability eg Club 100 or Cycle Lab.

Working hours are precious' date=' but the LBS is closer than Fourways, and the traffic is better! Problem will be to get numbers to the rural LBS...

 

In future the road to Fourways will be even longer, or alternatively tolled [img']https://assets.bikehub.co.za/legacy_images/smilies/smiley6.gif[/img]

[mercurystorm]

i live in fourways and hate driving in it... its not really fourways anymore, and more like no-ways... as you just go from gridlock to gridlock traffic jam

[Teardrop]

I agree with the original post by spinnekop! Why should we pay Cycling SA for doing nothing to ease the people burdens with number collections. Why not like athletics give a fixed number to a person who he then can race the whole year with. For people who only ride once a year give them day licences so that they can ride on the day?

 

Number collection for the day riders can then be done on the day of the race!

[fandacious]

I agree with the original post by spinnekop! Why should we pay Cycling SA for doing nothing to ease the people burdens with number collections. Why not like athletics give a fixed number to a person who he then can race the whole year with. For people who only ride once a year give them day licences so that they can ride on the day?

 

?

 

Number collection for the day riders can then be done on the day of the race!

 

 

 

one word : Seeding

 

 

 

There isnt really any seeding to speak of in running, so everyone starts in the same group.

 

 

 

however, seeding makes a huuuge difference in cycling.

 

 

 

This means that you would have loads of people printing out "A" group numbers for themselves when they clearly dont belong there.

 

 

 

having said that, PPA has a pretty nifty system. You get issued a number. If your seeding improves you can pay and collect your new number

[Radfahrer]

have a look at this....

[Spinnekop]

I DIDN'T READ THE OTHER 8 PAGE POST SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS DISCUSSED

Here is my plan:

 

1. When you take out your licence you get a 'lap nommer' and frame number like with the runners.

2.  You enter online and get placed in your group according to your seeding. 

3.  You get notified of starting time and group via email.

WAYS CSA CAN MAKE MONEY AND ALSO AVOID OTHER PROBLEMS

1.  If you loose your cloth number and frame number the CSA will issue you with a new one at a cost of R500' date=' if you loose your number it is your problem.

2.  If you start in the wrong start group you get fined R500 and you will not receive a result and loose points on your seeding index. 

 

The people that need the money CSA actually make money and cyclists don't get so annoyed they want to kill somebody.

 

 

WHAT MAKES THIS SO HARD?

[/quote']

 

Keep it in ONE thread Grapjas didi.

 

I don't think it is a CSA thing.  I think the race organisers are the ones doing the numbers at the moment......

[Mutt]

I also dont think it's csa - That would imply that do something for us after taking our money and I am sure they do nothing for the cash they take off us.Mutt2010-02-08 03:43:10

[Andyr249]

CSA get money from our licences and the general perception is that we get nothing in return for that money. So now wanting to give them more money for very little is going to meet resistance, Grapkas. And what happens if you don't pay the R500 fine? Are they going to take you to court where legal fees will cost much more and it will take years for them to get that tiny R500. CSA should manage the money better and invest it.