Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[Joe_Cogs]

All I know is that I have finally achieved my lifelong dream of matching Lance Armstrong's TDF titles

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Adding on to that, Dangle, the haters hate the lovers and the lovers hate the haters. Each group of "disciples" will constantly try to out-prove the other, and p1ss on each others arguments by saying that they are either jaded fan-boys, or vitriolic piss-cats intent on pulling down a sporting superstar.

 

It's a sad thing when informed, proper, logical debate is just pulled down like that.

[jcza]

Not sure if this has been posted - http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-26/Lance-Armstrong-Tour-de-France-doping/57336128/1

[fandacious]

I just fail to see how this is good for anyone.

 

This has all of the makings of a witch hunt. Focused investigation, Unnamed witnesses, No physical evidence.

 

im not sure what investigation you're referring to. There's plenty of named witnesses and loads of evidence. Forensic evidence is good enough. Should we only lock up robbers who are caught in the act on video camera? No, we allow forensic evidence to prove that they are guilty. same principle.

[fandacious]

For me it's simple, I am not a fan of his nor a hater, but I honestly admire his athletic ability.

 

do you admire contador's athletic ability?

[eddy]

Biggest problem I have with all of these positive test is that all the people who have been involved in this cover up should be prosecuted as well . Can you imagine the amount of people that would have to be " silenced " to keep a doping spectacle like this under wraps for such a long time ?

 

I think you are right and have hit the nail on the head.

 

I suspect that LA will survive this doping conviction, albeit in an altered and limited way.

 

However, those entrusted with running the sport, Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbruggen before him and perhaps even the ASO who own the tour, are so conflicted that they would never be able to survive were the full facts (and no, I don’t know them all) were to come to light.

 

They are in an invidious position. They have to sell the sport and its competitions to sponsors (fans as we have seen don’t always care) and also police it.

 

When LA burst on to the scene in the aftermath of the Festina affair, he must have looked like the great redeemer to them. By the time they suspected and found out he had feet of clay, it was too late. They had to continue the charade.

 

Hell, any CEO who is approached by an employee convicted of having defrauded the firm with a claim that the fraud ring he was part of is still active within the company, would immediately follow up with an in-depth forensic investigation of the claims. Not sue the complainant for libel. Unless he had much to hide.

 

If, what is being said about their complicity in a cover-up is true, they are either guilty of putting the significant commercial interests of the sport before their obligation to ensure it was clean, not just “on a level playing field”, or they are grossly incompetent. Either way, they would have to go.

[Guest Omega Man]

im not sure what investigation you're referring to. There's plenty of named witnesses and loads of evidence. Forensic evidence is good enough. Should we only lock up robbers who are caught in the act on video camera? No, we allow forensic evidence to prove that they are guilty. same principle.

 

m. I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject. by physical evidence i was talking about transfusion bags and the like. Cr@p. I just realized I'm a mindless fanboy.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Omega Man

[Wyatt Earp]

do you admire contador's athletic ability?

 

No.

But I do admire Indurain.

Contador for me is a "fly by night" rider who managed to rise to the top as he just happened to have an edge on his competitors at the time of his reign.

 

My opinion as it is, some will grill me for it and others will laugh at me for saying the above.

But as people say, haters gonna be haters.

 

I would love it if one could pose a small challenge to the armchair experts as myself and the rest of us out there.

 

Do 7 Cape-Epics in a row and finish mid pack.

And if the challengers feel they would like to dope, let them have that too.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Ultimately as much as machines we think we are and these athletes are, we all have an expiry date.

[Benjamin]

Adding on to that, Dangle, the haters hate the lovers and the lovers hate the haters. Each group of "disciples" will constantly try to out-prove the other, and p1ss on each others arguments by saying that they are either jaded fan-boys, or vitriolic piss-cats intent on pulling down a sporting superstar.

 

It's a sad thing when informed, proper, logical debate is just pulled down like that.

That's always going to be the case with sport, and the heroes sport creates. One fan's hero is another fan's clown. That's why we love sport and why we get so attached to it, as you get emotionally connected. You love Sharks or Bulls, Ferrari or McLaren, Armstrong or Contador . Can't do both. So depending on which camp you live in, you will form your own opinion.

Proper , logical debate not possible from a biased start point.

 

It is what it is.

[Wyatt Earp]

 

Proper , logical debate not possible from a biased start point.

 

 

Nice and simple

[Guest Omega Man]

That's always going to be the case with sport, and the heroes sport creates. One fan's hero is another fan's clown. That's why we love sport and why we get so attached to it, as you get emotionally connected. You love Sharks or Bulls, Ferrari or McLaren, Armstrong or Contador . Can't do both. So depending on which camp you live in, you will form your own opinion.

Proper , logical debate not possible from a biased start point.

 

It is what it is.

Nicely put. I reckon they all did dope and they all still do dope. I still think they are the best athletes on the planet.

[Wyatt Earp]

Maybe it's just me, but "Nobody needs to cry for me" sounds a bit Evita-esque…

 

No need for some cheap dumpster analogy .

Just a grown adult pretty much saying that we should carry on with our lives.

[Tubehunter]

while doping is the core problem, people get pissed with lance because of his tactics. his blackmailing, his threatening, his strongarming. as much as you dislike anyone else in the pro peloton, none of them came close to using tactics like lance. We dont hate him purely for doping.... its everything that surrounds his doping that is the problem.

 

Whether you care to admit it or not fandacious, to everyone outside of cycling Lance Armstrong is STILL the face of its pinnacle of professionalism. Therein lies the real tragedy of this mess. And it is a mess. Cycling pros are all doping to the limits that WADA sets in order to stay 'clean' simply cos they are within the limits. These limits are changed from time to time and when old samples are then retested suddenly everyone pops up with a positive. No surprise there! But to come back to the original statement, corporates and non cyclists investing will definitely think a lot more about considering to get involved in the sport of cycling after this madness. Armstrong will get burnt but other riders will surely follow in a similar dope hunt to find a clean winner and when the battle is done, cycling is going to be the ultimate loser! Don't forget to cheer when that happens... This will be the tip of the iceberg. Wonder if TdF and UCI will still be in existence when this is all said and done....

[JGR]

I read a comment that said the following (or similar) - if they had one positive test but ten witnesses saying they never saw Lance dope would the outcome have been different?

[Tumbleweed]

Cycling pros are all doping to the limits that WADA sets in order to stay 'clean' simply cos they are within the limits. These limits are changed from time to time and when old samples are then retested suddenly everyone pops up with a positive. No surprise there!

 

I don't think you can be sanctioned if you're retested and the permissable levels have changed. The issue about retesting old samples first emerged when there that was no test at the turn of the century for EPO.

 

Wonder if TdF and UCI will still be in existence when this is all said and done....

 

The TdF will survive, even if the UCI didn't - which it will. The ASO have been at odds with the UCI plenty of times.

[SwissVan]

I read a comment that said the following (or similar) - if they had one positive test but ten witnesses saying they never saw Lance dope would the outcome have been different?

 

Good point, what if LA was allowed to bring 20 witnesses testifying that saw him training to win and dont believe he doped?

 

Aggghh cant believe i'm getting sucked into this again

 

Tchuss