Stricker Posted September 13, 2017 Share If I may..........And John will know infinitely more than me..... But for me, I use Avg.Ultimately you want to know (for yourself) what you can or cannot do in an hour. In a race I KNOW I can handle 280w avg.If you base this on a FTP value that was calculated on NP (not avg) and you did your FTP on a very hilly coarse, you will miss your mark BIG time. But that is just personal. Any proper FTP test will give you an almost the same NP and AVE power number.Tnx for reply spinnekop. Judging from what i can see wattsboard work it out from NP. My power for the race: 235 Avg270 NPCurrent FTP set at 310 So based on the above They worked my TSS out on NP and not AVG. Could this be the reason for my inflated TSS per week as per wattsboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wakefield Posted September 13, 2017 Share Hi John, as always appreciate your advise. Will just take Sundays race numbers on Wattsboard: Time : 2:05TSS : 154IF : 84 When looking at the 60min @ FTP =100tssWould assume you take your NP and not AVG Power. Tnx If I may..........And John will know infinitely more than me..... But for me, I use Avg.Ultimately you want to know (for yourself) what you can or cannot do in an hour. In a race I KNOW I can handle 280w avg.If you base this on a FTP value that was calculated on NP (not avg) and you did your FTP on a very hilly coarse, you will miss your mark BIG time. But that is just personal. Any proper FTP test will give you an almost the same NP and AVE power number. I also use AVG not NP power and what Spidey has said I agree with in total. To have 77tss per hour is a proper effort - are your values correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricker Posted September 13, 2017 Share I also use AVG not NP power and what Spidey has said I agree with in total. To have 77tss per hour is a proper effort - are your values correct?Guesstimate would be +3/5% on current ftp..but nothing over the top Did a zone 2 ride yesterday on IDT in Erg Mode 200watts avg for 2:00 Wattsboard telling me 101 TSSIf worked back to 60min@FTP=100TSS formula it should have been in the 120s.. Could it be that it takes HR into consideration as well as Watts? Tnx Edited September 13, 2017 by Stricker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaper Posted September 13, 2017 Share Guesstimate would be +3/5% on current ftp..but nothing over the top Did a zone 2 ride yesterday on IDT in Erg Mode 200watts avg for 2:00 Wattsboard telling me 101 TSSIf worked back to 60min@FTP=100TSS formula it should have been in the 120s.. Could it be that it takes HR into consideration as well as Watts? TnxThink it would be better to email the developer of the software you are using to find out how they calculate the TSS? Apart from Trainingpeaks, your garmin will also tell you your TSS which you can view on Garmin Connect for comparison. Edited September 13, 2017 by shaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boab Posted September 13, 2017 Share (be gentle on me......as I can't face reading 76 pages of this thread). Am I correct in this assumption? Power meter data uploaded to various training websites allow you to view summarised performance metrics, TSS amongst others? If so, are the correlations/equations used to calculate TSS, amongst others, widely known? So answering my own query, based on the recent discussion, the correlations aren't readily available! Surely they're available on the internet, or even the scientific literature somewhere? if they are multi-factorial, trying to back-track from field data is very difficult to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaper Posted September 13, 2017 Share So answering my own query, based on the recent discussion, the correlations aren't readily available! Surely they're available on the internet, or even the scientific literature somewhere? if they are multi-factorial, trying to back-track from field data is very difficult to do...https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/estimating-training-stress-score-tss/ Fat Boab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Boab Posted September 13, 2017 Share https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/estimating-training-stress-score-tss/ Yeah, I just looked that up. Doesn't that address most of today's discussion? Anyway, has anyone explored Bannister’s heart rate-based training impulse method? For those without a power meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wakefield Posted September 14, 2017 Share Guesstimate would be +3/5% on current ftp..but nothing over the top Did a zone 2 ride yesterday on IDT in Erg Mode 200watts avg for 2:00 Wattsboard telling me 101 TSSIf worked back to 60min@FTP=100TSS formula it should have been in the 120s.. Could it be that it takes HR into consideration as well as Watts? Tnx Zone 2 ride for 2 hours is not a 100 or 120 tss ride. That is 75-85tss if done correctly and values are correct. It could be taking HR into consideration yes, but then again the scores wont differ all that much and would typically be lower than power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanievb Posted September 14, 2017 Share Zone 2 ride for 2 hours is not a 100 or 120 tss ride. That is 75-85tss if done correctly and values are correct. It could be taking HR into consideration yes, but then again the scores wont differ all that much and would typically be lower than power. redo ftp? can you suggest a FTP test protocol on the IDT? I recall you mentioning shorter test than the Coggan 20 min test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wakefield Posted September 14, 2017 Share redo ftp? can you suggest a FTP test protocol on the IDT? I recall you mentioning shorter test than the Coggan 20 min test Yes you can re-do it or you can adjust by 10w and then re-calculate your scores like IF and TSS and you will also get a pretty spot on FTP value. for example a proper recovery ride 1.5hours will be a .65 IF and around 70/75 TSS. 5 x 10min Zone 4 for example will be a .8 IF and 165TSS. If you banging out a 2 hour ride with a IF of .9 or above values are to low, if you hitting intervals like 5 x 10 and you doing .7 then your values are to high. On the above its all relevant on RPE so if you doing Z4 at a RPE of 8 which is correct you shouldn't have a .7 IF. On the test itself - personally I would use 2 x 10min all out. 20min as I have said before for me personally is not data I use at all. joshwgray and fanievb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted September 14, 2017 Share Hi John, as always appreciate your advise. Will just take Sundays race numbers on Wattsboard: Time : 2:05TSS : 154IF : 84 When looking at the 60min @ FTP =100tssWould assume you take your NP and not AVG Power. TnxStricker Race time was about 1:56 Or did you include your warm-up ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi-h Posted September 14, 2017 Share Guesstimate would be +3/5% on current ftp..but nothing over the top Did a zone 2 ride yesterday on IDT in Erg Mode 200watts avg for 2:00 Wattsboard telling me 101 TSSIf worked back to 60min@FTP=100TSS formula it should have been in the 120s.. Could it be that it takes HR into consideration as well as Watts? Tnx TSS does not include HR. rTSS or TRIMP scores are based on HR, but it will be clearly indicated when it is an HR based TSS value. The TSS calculation is based on the Normalized Power and not on Average power. TSS = Time x IF x 100. So in your case, you are correct, with an FTP of 310W will give you a TSS of 129 based on your 2 hr ride @ 200W Your NP cannot be lower than your average power, thus the calc is incorrect. I'm guessing that either your power data got corrupted or something went wrong with the file transfer between your IDT and whichever software system you use to calculate TSS. Edited September 14, 2017 by rudi-h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Wakefield Posted September 14, 2017 Share Your NP cannot be lower than your average power, thus the calc is incorrect. I'm guessing that either your power data got corrupted or something went wrong with the file transfer between your IDT and whichever software system you use to calculate TSS. Sometimes it can. Random I know but it does. 2 hr recovery is not 129tss. if it is you riding way to hard or your values aren't right. Edited September 14, 2017 by J Wakefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgens Smit Posted September 17, 2017 Share TSS 936IF - .7814 hours 1 training ride in the week + the Jock Tour Previous week was the first week back on the bike after a 2 week forced break due to flu. TSS - 369 Edited September 17, 2017 by Jurgens Smit Veebee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veebee Posted September 18, 2017 Share TSS: 638IF: .73 10 hours had to miss out on a 3 hour ride yesterday due to the crazy weather we had in Durban.This week will be easy, off to Cpt for 6 days without my bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted September 18, 2017 Share 2nd week of TSS: 500IF: 0,78 Missed out on one workout, TSS: 71 Battle with legs not wanting to play along Another week of TSS:500 and then cut back for B&B. G Veebee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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