Cape Town Cycle Tour (The Argus) 2015

[Tubehunter]

I wonder if they going to have the same pen entry system they had last year where they have thousands of riders first entering a big pen and then going to the smaller pens. What a stuff up, Had guys from the first few start groups getting tied up at the first entry "gate" with people starting in 2 hours time. The original system worked for years, Why change it?

 

Brace yourself... There is a two stage start chute process.....

[Winstonian1984]

Correct so if your best event is a single event then that seeding count 100% as per their discription but they are still applying weighting

This happened with the Stellenbosch cycle tour as well, I queried and they changed it. Same thing with the 99er. What is so odd is that those who wrote these rules regarding weighting of seeding and non-seeding events dont understand it themselves. SMH

[Organic]

with the weightings affecting almost everyone who completed seeding events, would they then have to reseed everyone or just those who query?

 

Who knows what they will do. Theoretically they should re-seed everybody because even people whose seeding indices aren't affected could be pushed back when those whose seeding indices do change move forward.

[Long Wheel Base]

Brace yourself... There is a two stage start chute process.....

 

 

Thats about all the info they give

Hmm it doesn't look much better. Slightly different if I can remember but unless they prevent people who are starting later going in it still wont work. I'm in # and was last year and it was such a fail we and many others ended up having to enter our pens(not by choice, we where told to) from the front and we all know what happens when people push in from the front. One thing that looks better is each pen has its own entrance, last year our entrance was behind the group starting behind us and it got blocked, hence the reason we where told to enter from front and just push everyone back. I also see we on the same side as the elites, and we start after them, previously we where on the opposite side to them.

[DJR]

I think the 2 stage entry was designed as a safety / security thing. The outer perimeter would only allow people with numbers, bikes and chips in, so once you were in the big circle, at least you knew there were only fellow riders around you. No nasties looking for a quick bike to swipe. Yes, it is a sign of the times we live in. Then from there you entered your particular starting pen. However, the large number of people that arrived early and didn't understand where they had to go, just clogged everything up and there was no way to get past them. I think the flow can be directed better by proper marshaling and communication. All it will take is 10 guys with megaphones! I trust they will get it right this time.

[Ratty]

can I hold onto your shirt pocket as you come past ... pretty please

 

What group you in?

[dirtypot]

I didn't have any issues with the start chutes last year.  Got through smoothly with no clogging or masses of people.  I was there early though.  Maybe the later start groups go busier?

[Ratty]

Yes it does happen and for people who are over 70 years of age and\or have completed more than 10 Argus rides. Why should they not receive seeding above the open groups if they're regular riders of the event who for some reason don't have seeding for this years installment or are old enough to warrant an earlier start to stay out of the heat of the day for ALL of their ride?

 

It's not like they are seeded at the front. They're seeded ahead of the rest of the non seeded riders.

 

I am not in an open group, I am seeded.  I'd have no problem if they put them after the seeded riders, but before the PPA group. 

 

The issue I have is that you now have riders of all different abilities mixed up in groups that are faster than what they would normally be in.  This is asking for accidents to happen especially in the early parts of the race.

[Slowbee]

What group you in?

6A ....so I start just before you... well enough to get some momentum going before I grab your shirt pocket.  Hang on, who you riding with ? How big are they ?

[Long Wheel Base]

I didn't have any issues with the start chutes last year.  Got through smoothly with no clogging or masses of people.  I was there early though.  Maybe the later start groups go busier?

I was in # last year, Second group to start so I was there early and it was a traffic jam of note. You picked the right spot to enter obviously, Ill follow you this time!

[Skubarra]

 

I am not in an open group, I am seeded.  I'd have no problem if they put them after the seeded riders, but before the PPA group. 

 

The issue I have is that you now have riders of all different abilities mixed up in groups that are faster than what they would normally be in.  This is asking for accidents to happen especially in the early parts of the race.

 

I think once you get past the the best few 1000 riders the ability/speed in the groups vary a lot anyway. There is just no way that the organisers can seed 35K people perfectly when most don't do any or at most 1 seeding race a year.

 

I don't have a problem with people who have done a lot of races being seeded in the middle of the field, for the most part they would be experienced cyclists who know how to stay out of trouble. The older experienced riders are not usually the ones causing accidents.

[Tubehunter]

I am not in an open group, I am seeded.  I'd have no problem if they put them after the seeded riders, but before the PPA group. 

 

The issue I have is that you now have riders of all different abilities mixed up in groups that are faster than what they would normally be in.  This is asking for accidents to happen especially in the early parts of the race.

 

As Skubarra has said, you are not dealing with novice riders to the CTCT when they are put in these age and tour completed groups. Their key skill will be in the way they ride the tour, irrespective of their individual ability. As such, they are indeed ahead of some of the 'seeded' riders, but the seeding index of these riders would translate into a more relaxed approach than an all out race effort. (In relation to the winner's time of course)

 

Ratty, your best option is to make sure you get in a proper longer distance race effort somewhere in the calender year leading up the the CTCT to ensure your index is high enough to be in front of these groups. This should be everyone's strategy if they are planning a PB for a particular year of participating in the CTCT!

[dev null]

I am not in an open group, I am seeded.  I'd have no problem if they put them after the seeded riders, but before the PPA group. 

 

The issue I have is that you now have riders of all different abilities mixed up in groups that are faster than what they would normally be in.  This is asking for accidents to happen especially in the early parts of the race.

 

If that is the case then the slower riders should be dropped on the way to Hospital Bend, else the faster riders are not really that fast.

 

The problem really comes when the next group catch them on Hospital Bend, cause then it will be a case of brakes squealing and panic setting in.

[GoLefty!!]

As Skubarra has said, you are not dealing with novice riders to the CTCT when they are put in these age and tour completed groups. Their key skill will be in the way they ride the tour, irrespective of their individual ability. As such, they are indeed ahead of some of the 'seeded' riders, but the seeding index of these riders would translate into a more relaxed approach than an all out race effort. (In relation to the winner's time of course)

 

Ratty, your best option is to make sure you get in a proper longer distance race effort somewhere in the calender year leading up the the CTCT to ensure your index is high enough to be in front of these groups. This should be everyone's strategy if they are planning a PB for a particular year of participating in the CTCT!

 

 

 

Yes this is a good strategy but once again, the system rewards loyalty to the tiered events.

 

they are assuming that if you ride their events you have the necessary experience and if you don't ride their events then you do not or are viewed as a higher risk entry. That's classic actuarial thinking but flawed in the context of sport since experience is also gained over time, number of tours and time away from certain levels of the sport. there are people who have never ridden faster than 4 hours seeded in 2x and 3x groups. these are groups who are arguably going to be more inclined to go for faster times.

 

theres plenty of points of view here and its good to thrash it out. Maybe the seeding system isn't perfect but perhaps its good enough for now.

[HeadDown]

 

 

Note the weightings - the last 2 figures.  They've penalized my 2013 ACT by 18 points, and then weighted it by 66% to give me an overall index of 22.51 (1G), despite both ACTs having been an official seeding events.  

 

Yes, I've queried it.

That's exactly what they did with me.

[DJR]

The older guys and multiple Argus finishers, know this race inside and out. They know they are slower than their start group and they normally start in the tail end of their group to stay out of trouble. They ride mostly solo or in small groups of regulars that work together. They simply don't cause any issues for the faster riders trying to pass. I have a 76 year old in the family that ride a sub 5 hour on a good day and I have ridden with him and some of his cronies a few times. I would take them a hundred times over a handful on young guns trying to ride a sub 3 from a 10h00 start group.