dirtypot Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Table Mountain Bikers, on their FB page, made in my opinion, an irresponsible comment at the end of their post concerning the Constantia Green Belt "In the meantime, the status quo in the greenbelts remains. Likelihood of enforcement is minimal due to lack of resources." (June 1 at 10:05am) This could easily be taken as... go ride the area, you probably won't get caught! Drive your car at 200km/h down the M3. You probably won't get caught.
Meezo Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Drive your car at 200km/h down the M3. You probably won't get caught. Down the M3 easy, up on the other hand.... EISH
Headshot Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Drive your car at 200km/h down the M3. You probably won't get caught. Yes, that's precisely equivalent to riding your bike on a green belt. On second thoughts, not at all. The people who argue that bikes must stay off green belts remind me of bike apartheid security police. There is a sign so you may not be here. You can't be here because you are on wheels, never mind human powered wheels We don't like you because we have all sorts of preconceived notions about bikes and bike riding people and most of all we don't like to share our amenities with people who are different to us. Horse riders are not different to us because we know them and they are rich and shout loudly to get what they want. Joggers are a problem at times in large groups, but there is no sign to say they are not allowed so they can play. Thinking of forming a liberation movement called the MTBeer Congress. Lets meet somewhere where there is beer and hatch a fiendish plot... udxcob 1
dirtypot Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Yes, that's precisely equivalent to riding your bike on a green belt. On second thoughts, not at all. Thinking of forming a liberation movement called the MTBeer Congress. Lets meet somewhere where there is beer and hatch a fiendish plot... My point was that just because someone says "you probably won't get caught" doesn't mean that its a good idea or acceptable at all. But I do like the MTBeer Congress idea Headshot 1
Eddy Gordo Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Table Mountain Bikers, on their FB page, made in my opinion, an irresponsible comment at the end of their post concerning the Constantia Green Belt "In the meantime, the status quo in the greenbelts remains. Likelihood of enforcement is minimal due to lack of resources." (June 1 at 10:05am) This could easily be taken as... go ride the area, you probably won't get caught!and that there is what the op can use as reasoning as to why he was where he was when he appears in court (Deon) 1
Mntboy Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Yes, that's precisely equivalent to riding your bike on a green belt. On second thoughts, not at all. The people who argue that bikes must stay off green belts remind me of bike apartheid security police. There is a sign so you may not be here. You can't be here because you are on wheels, never mind human powered wheels We don't like you because we have all sorts of preconceived notions about bikes and bike riding people and most of all we don't like to share our amenities with people who are different to us. Horse riders are not different to us because we know them and they are rich and shout loudly to get what they want. Joggers are a problem at times in large groups, but there is no sign to say they are not allowed so they can play. Thinking of forming a liberation movement called the MTBeer Congress. Lets meet somewhere where there is beer and hatch a fiendish plot...Mtbeer Congress sounds interesting. Which beer house did you have in mind? Edited June 23, 2015 by Mntboy
MarcW Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Been following this thread most of the morning... What bothered me was some guys saying that you will get a criminal record if you pay your admission of guilt fine. I struggled to believe how this could be true, so I tried to contact someone at SANParks to get some clarity on this.Eventually I got a call back from Hilton who manages the security for SANParks in this area - i.e. He is responsible for sending the rangers to patrol certain spots - he assured me that you will not receive a criminal record if you pay your fines before the court date, you may also go to court and contest it , or avoid doing anything if you like (and face the consequences what ever they might be). But the point is you WILL NOT get a criminal record for paying the admission of guilt fine. Although I don't agree at all with how heavy the fines are, or the way they are handled by SANParks. Hilton stressed the point to me a few times that SANParks aren't intentionally trying to push cyclists away, they are trying to accommodate and keep everyone happy, which is not an easy task. I can only hold thumbs they officially open Cecilia and the greenbelts for us to ride soon !
Eddy Gordo Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You will only get a criminal record if you found guilty by a judge as far as I know. Paying an admission of guilt definitely wont give you a record!
Headshot Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Been following this thread most of the morning... What bothered me was some guys saying that you will get a criminal record if you pay your admission of guilt fine. I struggled to believe how this could be true, so I tried to contact someone at SANParks to get some clarity on this.Eventually I got a call back from Hilton who manages the security for SANParks in this area - i.e. He is responsible for sending the rangers to patrol certain spots - he assured me that you will not receive a criminal record if you pay your fines before the court date, you may also go to court and contest it , or avoid doing anything if you like (and face the consequences what ever they might be). But the point is you WILL NOT get a criminal record for paying the admission of guilt fine. Although I don't agree at all with how heavy the fines are, or the way they are handled by SANParks. Hilton stressed the point to me a few times that SANParks aren't intentionally trying to push cyclists away, they are trying to accommodate and keep everyone happy, which is not an easy task. I can only hold thumbs they officially open Cecilia and the greenbelts for us to ride soon ! Guys, beware of taking any advice whatsoever from a SANP/TMNP official. They are not qualified or trained to offer legal opinions. I have not seen the latest ticket but it sounds as if it is a statutory offence in terms of NEMA ( I mentioned this earlier in a post) The ticket I saw for swimming in a dam you were not supposed to stated that payment would result in a criminal record. Its only traffic tickets that are the exception to the rule as far as I know... If you get one of these don't pay it. Go to court and ask to speak to the prosecutor in the court in question and then ask for the control prosecutor and ask him/her to withdraw the ticket. They probably will. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1
DJR Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Guys, beware of taking any advice whatsoever from a SANP/TMNP official. They are not qualified or trained to offer legal opinions. I have not seen the latest ticket but it sounds as if it is a statutory offence in terms of NEMA ( I mentioned this earlier in a post) The ticket I saw for swimming in a dam you were not supposed to stated that payment would result in a criminal record. Its only traffic tickets that are the exception to the rule as far as I know... If you get one of these don't pay it. Go to court and ask to speak to the prosecutor in the court in question and then ask for the control prosecutor and ask him/her to withdraw the ticket. They probably will. Agreed, be very careful with this, especially if you plan to travel overseas and need to apply for a visa. A criminal record will keep you out of most countries. Ditto for any new job you try to get. Get proper legal advice, find out exactly under what law you are charged and how to deal with it. The possible fall out if you get it wrong is not going to be good and you will be stuck with it for ever! Otherwise it will later cost you and arm and a leg to make it disappear. Hub lawyers, is there anybody out there? (Sorry Pink Floyd) (Deon) 1
Mntboy Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 You will only get a criminal record if you found guilty by a judge as far as I know. Paying an admission of guilt definitely wont give you a record!That is my understanding as well.
gongmech Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I heard an interesting point about the silvermine closure. The fire trucks which fought the fire from the JT would spray as far as they could to contain the fire, leaving all the high growth along the road unaffected and not burnt to ash like the rest of the area. In the weeks following the fire, small animals return to start again but can only find shelter in the remaining bushes on the road. They need the shelter for their safety as cycling circling birds of prey would take easy pickings out in the open. Now reopen that area before anything has been reestablished for people/bikes/dogs to walk/ride/run along the road, suddenly the small animals are being chased out of the only shelter out into the open, making reintroduction near impossible. But that's not all. Tokai is closed, S'mine east is closed, imagine the saturation of traffic moving along one route. Brings new meaning to "nowhere to hide". See, from our perspective, there is no danger to us. now here's a man with brains!!
(Deon) Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 now here's a man with brains!! Humbled, but I am only relating the info. I guess I did see the value in it though..
(Deon) Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Table Mountain Bikers, on their FB page, made in my opinion, an irresponsible comment at the end of their post concerning the Constantia Green Belt "In the meantime, the status quo in the greenbelts remains. Likelihood of enforcement is minimal due to lack of resources." (June 1 at 10:05am) This could easily be taken as... go ride the area, you probably won't get caught!Hardly surprising with the "activist" role he's adopted. While sometimes a good thing, throwing your constituents in front of the bus is just plain wrong - oh, TMB is not constituted, it doesn't matter as much then? You'll find similar posts in various places and if following these risky guidelines and caught, you will have only yourself to blame. Better hope the judge doesn't see a pattern forming because how many cases can possibly be thrown out before it looks plausible. ED: better not mean PPA promotes civil disobedience Edited June 24, 2015 by (Deon)
Benjamin Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Morning. Been reading this thread with interest from afar. Haven't a clue where any of these places or trails are, so no preconceived or vested opinion. Just an observation with respect to all. Sometimes when we passionate about something, like our bike riding, we can easily forget that other priorities exist. As a landowner, be it the state or private, MTB trails are unlikely to be top of the agenda, ( unless it's a dedicated mtb park for commercial gain) and have to compete with conservation, economic, leisure , sustainability , safety , and other factors. I'll bet a public space entity gets lobbied by numerous bodies. Hikers, walkers , riders, model plane flyers, dogs, tourism, birders et al, so must be hard to juggle it all. Overriding mandate I'm sure isfor the greater good of the land itself?? Edited June 24, 2015 by Benjamin DJR, dirtypot, Mntboy and 2 others 5
King_Crispy Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 There is a big difference here between riding illegal trials and riding without a permit. Permits aren't that hard to get and if you are buying for a year then it's a bit of foot work once a year not the end of the world. I actual think that there are very few riders I have passed on table mountain who are only riding enough to need a day permit. The rangers were out at the epic dh / plum pudding section yesterday. There were a lot of riders on serious bikes who we're seasoned riders moaning that they couldn't get a day pass on a weekend. More than one group I see on a lot of the weekends. How ever stupid the rules are they are the rules and TMNP doesn't have to let us ride there. Obey the rules and if you don't like the system then actually join those people who put a lot of effort into the thankless task of trying to change the rules and get more trails for everybody to ride.Rules, my friend are not rules. In South Africa now, there are NO rules.If the ANC can can let the Sudanese president get away after a court has approved his arrest, where are we going?This place is screwed. Decaying quicker than a dead rat in a summer sewer
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