Danger Dassie Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 That saying "first world problems" ... ya that.
Skubarra Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 That saying "first world problems" ... ya that. Yes but I much prefer discussing this little problem than the Refugee Crisis, White Privilege, ISIS, #feesmustfall etc
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Behaviour is a side issue. A worthwhile issue to debate but really requires a separate topic because it spans all disciples of cycling.We're dealing with suitability of the bikes eg MTB and Road bike to be thrown into the same mix. Good arguments both ways. So bear with me on this. I have another example of the DC where I was nearly taken out by a MTB down Tradouw. He thought that Rossi style leaning into the corner knee out and using the whole road while coming from behind me was a clever move. Partly I can understand why he used the whole road because at the speed he was going he would not have made the corner if he didn't. Could he have communicated? Sure But what can I do about something /someone behind me? It up the rider behind to keep clear. But when cornering ability on a tar road is so vastly different between the two types of bike, is it a clever idea to allow them to use the same rad at the time in an organised event? I get you're a MTBer and this feels a little personal maybe. Its not an attack on you or MTBer's ( i ride a MTB too). You're proposing thoughts on why you feel the different types of bikes should race together based on safety issues right? I'm predominantly a road bike racer who also mountain bikes (but comes from an MX background so prefers gap jumps and riding trails on my own rather than queue behind people on the best single track parts in mountain bike races. *Reminds himself he really needs to get more into the enduro scene and get some off road racing in that way!) As someone who cycles a lot in any discipline I don't see this as an attack on what bike, but rather a safety concern. That being said, group riding dynamics will sort most of these concerns out irrespective of whether the group in question has people riding any manner or types of bike. It's an art to ride cohesively that does not come easily for anyone. The sad part is when amateur racers want to act like an uninformed punk to hold a specific position in a bunch and disrupt it when the whole bunches' agenda is to ride as fast a time as possible for everyone individually and the group keeps working against itself leading to those crazy moments that are properly unsafe!
Skubarra Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 And I quote:" when they inevitably get dropped." But somehow...when you get to the next race..... they are back in the bunch..in front of you..why?Somehow they magically maintained the same seeding you have..?AKA.. Paced you back down to size... So why is it, can you not outpace a MTB'kr? Surely making statements the way you do, you should be at the front of the pack..?Are you X or Y bunch? Geeezzzzz. I love stirring this pot..... Mr stirrer, you didn't know you could get & "maintain" a good road seeding from your mtb event results? Same principal apply to the black magic dirt roadies with zero technical skills use to get good mtb seedings... (luckilly mtb'ers never complain about them) Those mtb'ers sure as hell don't maintain those seedings with how they perform in road races
raptor-22 Posted November 30, 2015 Author Posted November 30, 2015 true but if an MX bike was racing in the MotoGp class and was fast enough to keep up it would create some really stressful and uncomfortable moments for the MotoGP riders irrespective of how well behaved the MX rider is. I fully agree bigger safely concerns arise from human behaviour. Bt surely chosing an unsuitable vehicle is also a behaviour?
Jewbacca Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Raptor-22, take your cross bike and 2 sets of tires.... I ride my CX bike with 25c tires on as my roadie. A change of tires and cassette with a RD tweak and boom, 5 minutes later it is ready for dirt action. Don't expect to bomb big rocky rutted stuff but most trails in SA are pretty fun on a CX bike to be honest. The smile/stoke factor is high when you clear the odd table and smash the odd drop at pace sitting in the drops
Kranswurm Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Its ridiculousApart from the kids,beginners and part timers way down the field it should be banned from all the front groups down quite a way.Dont they have a decent piece of dirt somewhere to go and play in instead of upsetting the bunch with their uncontrolled and erratic riding
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 true but if an MX bike was racing in the MotoGp class and was fast enough to keep up it would create some really stressful and uncomfortable moments for the MotoGP riders irrespective of how well behaved the MX rider is. I fully agree bigger safely concerns arise from human behaviour. Bt surely chosing an unsuitable vehicle is also a behaviour? If an MX bike was capable of racing against a GP bike, the motards champs would be kukking themselves!!!!! Still doesn't change the analogy though. As preferable as it is to have everyone racing on road bikes in a road bike event, you will never be able to get that. Some people only have one bike and telling them they can't race because suddenly their bike is now no longer fit for purpose makes it too exclusive. Mountain bikes have long been accepted in road races in SA. Aero time trail bars have never though, for the safety aspect of group accidents where the possibility of a bunch of these pointing ready to catch a group of riders coming down poses some other scenarios. Which brings us back to those isolated strongmen on their wide bar knobblied bikes who likely spend very little time group riding who might find themselves at the sharp end of the field mixing it up with us dedicated amateur racers. Deal with it there and then, but do it in a way that makes them feel accepted and part of what is going on. Rather help the dude out. We both know it's only a question of time until he\she gets a roadbike and moves further forward in the field, realising with their strength they can. Make sure they have some group riding skill when that happens!!!!
dre Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 I don't own a road bike, but I'll continue doing as much road races on my 29er with lekker noisy knobblies as I want - don't really care if you feel it's dangerous or not. If I can keep up on my 29er DS weighing 14kg, then you're going to slow on your thin bike PS: so far my count of road races are 2. or rather 1.5 as the 2nd argust was only a half-august.
Pikey Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Is all the animosity towards mtn bikers on the road,coz road bikes can't do rock gardens or gap jumps ....???? ????????????????????
Patchelicious Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 snip I fully agree bigger safely concerns arise from human behaviour. Bt surely chosing an unsuitable vehicle is also a behaviour?This is a good point. That is one level back in the conversation, but is the root cause. So we agree, that if you rock up with a MTB you need to take extra caution to not cause damage to those around you who have brought suitable equipment. The question that needs to be asked, and this where it gets tricky, is Why are you rocking up at a road race with a MTB? Two possible answers. You want to use a road bike but cant or you Can use a roadbike but dont want too.
Patchelicious Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 I don't own a road bike, but I'll continue doing as much road races on my 29er with lekker noisy knobblies as I want - don't really care if you feel it's dangerous or not. If I can keep up on my 29er DS weighing 14kg, then you're going to slow on your thin bike PS: so far my count of road races are 2. or rather 1.5 as the 2nd argust was only a half-august.Wow what a lovely attitude, you must be a delight to ride next too. What group did you start your 1.5 races in?
Tubehunter Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 *snipped The question that needs to be asked, and this where it gets tricky, is Why are you rocking up at a road race with a MTB? Many reasons, which include: 1 - Only have a mountain bike2 - The riding position is more comfortable for longer racing time in the saddle without stopping. (e.g back\neck issues)3 - Have an issue with my road bike and still want to get another year of participation in that specific event.4 - Riding it more socially and prefer doing it on the MTB.5 - It's never been against the rules before. Others I'm sure but those will get you started.
mazambaan Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 This broedertwis is quite ironic and amusing; as if enough other road users weren't irritated by cyclists, now we are bickering amongst ourselves. But funny it reminds when years ago in the US offroad bikes raced on the same track as offroad trucks. Well some bored MX riders took their hired car onto the track during the trucks and finished somewhere like fourth. Bit of damage to the car though.
tux26 Posted November 30, 2015 Posted November 30, 2015 Are cross bikes allowed in Mtb events? I believe one team did Sani2C on cross bikes about 3 years ago. I also saw someone riding a cross bike on the TV footage of the Eston MTB race this year.
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