Dopers suck

[Andrew Steer]

The authorities (SAIDS/CSA) didn't do any favours either by cocking a few things up and muddying the waters completely.

Then to follow up with this Zuma'esque gem "Cycling South Africa will not comment on this case further" Boom, there you go. 

 

Infuriating to say the least  

And it's exactly why these dopers try paint some other bloody picture after the fact...

[BDF]

Infuriating to say the least

And it's exactly why these dopers try paint some other bloody picture after the fact...

I think there must be some sort of book they get with all the standard doping excuses in it. Kind of like a dopers excuse manual.

 

If asked "xxx"; then answer "yyy"

 

Must have hundreds of answers in it but I think we have heard many of them already. Some more creative than others. RC and the tyre sealant was pretty desperate though...

Edited May 10, 2016 by BDF

[Patchelicious]

I think there must be some sort of book they get with all the standard doping excuses in it. Kind of like a dopers excuse manual.

 

If asked "xxx"; then answer "yyy"

 

Must have hundreds of answers in it but I think we have heard many of them already. Some more creative than others. RC and the tyre sealant was pretty desperate though...

I think the dirty pharmacy counter one was worse, but it was accepted. Seems that if you close your eyes and think hard enough anything is believable.

 

Makes me think of this quote: Young William Thacher: Can it be done father? Can a man change the stars?

John Thatcher: Yes William. If he believes enough, a man can do anything.

[HappyMartin]

I think the dirty pharmacy counter one was worse, but it was accepted. Seems that if you close your eyes and think hard enough anything is believable.

Makes me think of this quote: Young William Thacher: Can it be done father? Can a man change the stars?

John Thatcher: Yes William. If he believes enough, a man can do anything.

 

I'm assuming then that you know all the testimony in this case and all the evidence given? The video surveillance that was shown with a date stamp from the pharmacy? The log of the pharmacist showing what was dispensed and when? The result of all the blood tests done by Orica in Europe in an attempt to see any unusual performance gains?

 

And it wasn't a dirty counter so that bit is wrong. Tablets are dispensed on a tray with a channel on one side. That is where the contamination occurred.

 

But you see that's the issue isn't it. A case can be so complex that day's can be taken to go over the evidence. Our legal system has decided that is what is needed. But not on the streets. We can see the plain truth without looking at any evidence.

 

I dunno Patch. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you do know all the evidence. You have always struck me as intelligent with a nuanced understanding of many issues. Perhaps I am too close to this one.

 

Legal cases can be complex and counter intuitive. I have a friend who spent an awful week in jail for rape back in the 80's. All the stories pointed to him being a disgusting human and then there he was. Back with us. He didn't want to talk about it. He was insulted and ostracized and then the woman who had laid the charge was arrested. She had been caught having had sex by a family member and cried rape. Later she admitted it was consensual. I never forgot that incident. So me I am not so quick to throw stones.

[BDF]

I think the dirty pharmacy counter one was worse, but it was accepted. Seems that if you close your eyes and think hard enough anything is believable.

 

Makes me think of this quote: Young William Thacher: Can it be done father? Can a man change the stars?

John Thatcher: Yes William. If he believes enough, a man can do anything.

I think you're right. And amazingly it worked!

 

Then there was the Spanish beef one and the recent "that's not my bike" mechanical doping case.

 

Do these people actually hear what they are saying. Trevor Noah should do a show on it!

[Patchelicious]

I'm assuming then that you know all the testimony in this case and all the evidence given? The video surveillance that was shown with a date stamp from the pharmacy? The log of the pharmacist showing what was dispensed and when? The result of all the blood tests done by Orica in Europe in an attempt to see any unusual performance gains?

 

And it wasn't a dirty counter so that bit is wrong. Tablets are dispensed on a tray with a channel on one side. That is where the contamination occurred.

 

But you see that's the issue isn't it. A case can be so complex that day's can be taken to go over the evidence. Our legal system has decided that is what is needed. But not on the streets. We can see the plain truth without looking at any evidence.

 

I dunno Patch. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you do know all the evidence. You have always struck me as intelligent with a nuanced understanding of many issues. Perhaps I am too close to this one.

 

Legal cases can be complex and counter intuitive. I have a friend who spent an awful week in jail for rape back in the 80's. All the stories pointed to him being a disgusting human and then there he was. Back with us. He didn't want to talk about it. He was insulted and ostracized and then the woman who had laid the charge was arrested. She had been caught having had sex by a family member and cried rape. Later she admitted it was consensual. I never forgot that incident. So me I am not so quick to throw stones.

Hey, honestly, I have no evidence. If I had I would have openly said he cheated. All that I am saying is, that from the stuff that us mere mortals got to see, from descriptions of the medication from doctors right here on the Hub, and the lack of open discussion about it, it just seemed odd and suspicious. So 100% speculative and perhaps a little mischievous on my part

 

My chirp was more at the people who have opinion bias about "everybody dopes" but our boys!! Want me to illustrate my point about bias. I dare somebody to suggest that Burry doped....

 

You seem close to the case, how were you involved?

As with everything, evidence and fact is what changes opinion. Are you at liberty to share some information?

[BDF]

I'm assuming then that you know all the testimony in this case and all the evidence given? The video surveillance that was shown with a date stamp from the pharmacy? The log of the pharmacist showing what was dispensed and when? The result of all the blood tests done by Orica in Europe in an attempt to see any unusual performance gains?

 

And it wasn't a dirty counter so that bit is wrong. Tablets are dispensed on a tray with a channel on one side. That is where the contamination occurred.

 

But you see that's the issue isn't it. A case can be so complex that day's can be taken to go over the evidence. Our legal system has decided that is what is needed. But not on the streets. We can see the plain truth without looking at any evidence.

 

I dunno Patch. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you do know all the evidence. You have always struck me as intelligent with a nuanced understanding of many issues. Perhaps I am too close to this one.

 

Legal cases can be complex and counter intuitive. I have a friend who spent an awful week in jail for rape back in the 80's. All the stories pointed to him being a disgusting human and then there he was. Back with us. He didn't want to talk about it. He was insulted and ostracized and then the woman who had laid the charge was arrested. She had been caught having had sex by a family member and cried rape. Later she admitted it was consensual. I never forgot that incident. So me I am not so quick to throw stones.

You make a good point HappyMartin. I guess the thing is we get so jaded by all the excuses people come up with that when we read articles that don't include all the detail behind the defence we see an almost totally unbelievable excuse being given. What are the chances that that pharmacist would have been working with a banned substance just before another client walks in and asks for empty capsules to put baking soda in? Not only that but there was enough residue on the capsules to generate a positive doping test even after they were handled again to put the baking soda in and must have been put in some sort of container. You must admit that that seems far fetched.

 

Anyway, If it was all totally provable and substantiated with evidence then we must believe it.

[Brickleberry]

Here's a question ... Why do you think it is that despite all the testing and being a criminal offense in some countries, and all the pressure and lawsuits against lance we still to this day catch people doping from pros to local vets almost weekly? #justsaying

[Danger Dassie]

Here's a question ... Why do you think it is that despite all the testing and being a criminal offense in some countries, and all the pressure and lawsuits against lance we still to this day catch people doping from pros to local vets almost weekly? #justsaying

 

We're not robots, human nature? How long is a piece of string.

[eddy]

. I have a friend who spent an awful week in jail for rape back in the 80's. All the stories pointed to him being a disgusting human and then there he was. Back with us. He didn't want to talk about it. He was insulted and ostracized and then the woman who had laid the charge was arrested. She had been caught having had sex by a family member and cried rape. Later she admitted it was consensual. I never forgot that incident. So me I am not so quick to throw stones.

Was this the case at the Henley Regatta ?

[HappyMartin]

Was this the case at the Henley Regatta ?

No it wasn't. It was in 1982 in Pretoria. Not case that got any publicity that I am aware of.

[HappyMartin]

Hey, honestly, I have no evidence. If I had I would have openly said he cheated. All that I am saying is, that from the stuff that us mere mortals got to see, from descriptions of the medication from doctors right here on the Hub, and the lack of open discussion about it, it just seemed odd and suspicious. So 100% speculative and perhaps a little mischievous on my part

My chirp was more at the people who have opinion bias about "everybody dopes" but our boys!! Want me to illustrate my point about bias. I dare somebody to suggest that Burry doped....

You seem close to the case, how were you involved?

As with everything, evidence and fact is what changes opinion. Are you at liberty to share some information?

Not involved other than I know the family a little. Have known them for about 20 years. It's like I wrote earlier about the guys in gym we all know are doping. And we also get a feel for who is clean. When DG was bust how many of us were surprised? I was surprised. Surprised it took so long. Same with his riding partner. Well when Daryl was found positive I was shocked.

[Patchelicious]

Anyway, If it was all totally provable and substantiated with evidence then we must believe it.

Absolutely couldn't agree more. If it's true and its proven so, then it's the truth and we must believe it!

Edited May 10, 2016 by Patchelicious

[BarHugger]

Not involved other than I know the family a little. Have known them for about 20 years. It's like I wrote earlier about the guys in gym we all know are doping. And we also get a feel for who is clean. When DG was bust how many of us were surprised? I was surprised. Surprised it took so long. Same with his riding partner. Well when Daryl was found positive I was shocked.

I agree with you and I understand what you are saying.....but I think in the end of the day when it comes to passing judgment we all become a little bias because we have some personal interest........

[Patchelicious]

I agree with you and I understand what you are saying.....but I think in the end of the day when it comes to passing judgment we all become a little bias because we have some personal interest........

Absolutely, personal interest or emotional connection.

 

Luckily, facts are not bias. That why we need to stick to facts.

 

Daryl was found not guilty, so we must accept that and move on.

Him being found innocent however doesnt make his story any less obscure.

 

His story is plausible, unlikely, but plausible. As with lots of other things, especially science, if something is plausible and there are facts to support it, it is possible, no matter how unlikely it might seem at a glance.

[Skubarra]

OK I'm not a fan of the shaming of events that "support" doping but geez..... Are we just going to pretend to forget that the dude is currently serving a ban? 

 

 

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