Danger Dassie Posted February 25, 2022 Share 1 hour ago, PhilipV said: If he didn't have to fight the cancer battle as well, I would have called BS, but for some reason I have some grace for him. No one needs all that at once in their lives. But TBH, have no hope for anyone relying on SA's supplement industry too. I remember a story from the RECM Team days that they used sponsored supplements that was made seperately from that brand's (I can't remember who the sponsor was) other supps to prevent cross contamination. I think the problem is that we cast the issues with doping as a big wide net. Given Grave’s detailed breakdown, it isn’t unreasonable. Even WADA make allowances based on contamination/trace amounts. It’s not just supplements that can pose a risk, but much of what we ingest. Especially considering how processed and industrialised a lot of food is. It wasn’t that long ago that WADA issued a warning notice on excessive glenbuterol in beef products from some regions. The supplement with RECM wasn’t made separately from the sponsor. The sponsor themselves brought specific ranges into the Safe/True Sport programme and then further separated designated product to be tested again. In case of cross contamination. This is true of almost ALL supplement brands, regardless of nationality. Because they’re made in the same environment where medicines are made. DieselnDust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted February 28, 2022 Share On 2/25/2022 at 5:28 PM, Danger Dassie said: I think the problem is that we cast the issues with doping as a big wide net. Given Grave’s detailed breakdown, it isn’t unreasonable. Even WADA make allowances based on contamination/trace amounts. It’s not just supplements that can pose a risk, but much of what we ingest. Especially considering how processed and industrialised a lot of food is. It wasn’t that long ago that WADA issued a warning notice on excessive glenbuterol in beef products from some regions. The supplement with RECM wasn’t made separately from the sponsor. The sponsor themselves brought specific ranges into the Safe/True Sport programme and then further separated designated product to be tested again. In case of cross contamination. This is true of almost ALL supplement brands, regardless of nationality. Because they’re made in the same environment where medicines are made. Wonder why Contador got ****** then? Political? Danger Dassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I FLY Posted February 28, 2022 Share On 2/16/2022 at 12:29 PM, Eldron said: Imagine other careers were like cycling.... I get caught defrauding my company - no worries they say - depending on how much you stole you can't work for us for 6 months to 2 years then we'll have a chat to one our mates and get you a job over there....or take a slightly longer vacation and come back as our Director of Sport/Head of Accounting. It's laughable. “Funny “ story. I caught my creditors manager defrauding the company. As the amount was greater than R100k I was also obliged to report this to the Hawks she was fired and court found her guilty. My md asked for a suspended sentence instead of 5 years in jail. 3 months later I got a call from another company asking me for a reference on her Kingg, mecheng89, Eldron and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted February 28, 2022 Share On 2/25/2022 at 5:28 PM, Danger Dassie said: I think the problem is that we cast the issues with doping as a big wide net. Given Grave’s detailed breakdown, it isn’t unreasonable. Even WADA make allowances based on contamination/trace amounts. It’s not just supplements that can pose a risk, but much of what we ingest. Especially considering how processed and industrialised a lot of food is. It wasn’t that long ago that WADA issued a warning notice on excessive glenbuterol in beef products from some regions. The supplement with RECM wasn’t made separately from the sponsor. The sponsor themselves brought specific ranges into the Safe/True Sport programme and then further separated designated product to be tested again. In case of cross contamination. This is true of almost ALL supplement brands, regardless of nationality. Because they’re made in the same environment where medicines are made. I have a problem with doping being so BINARY. There should be degrees of severity here, beyond just length of sentence. Clearly the pro cycling world has a lot of grey areas. There's people with TUEs that are bollocks, microdosing to just stay below certain criteria and the list of banned substances is a living document and all sorts of other "legal" ways to gain an advantage. If it was put on a scale, on the one side you can have positive athletes like Chilliboy and Basson who were given tainted supplements(thanks USN) whilst on tour by their official team. the whole team would have tested positive as they all took them. On the other end of the scale you could put systematic cheaters (EGerman federation in the 70s/80s, Us Postal, Ricco the list is long) who went all in to cheat to gain an advantage. Instead in the public eyes you're either in the "doping" or the "non doping" camp, and the second one is often just the "not caught". I'm sure it's been done before but there really should be a doping matrix chart. it would fall down over believability of the excuse, but that is life. Christie and Danger Dassie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted February 28, 2022 Share 50 minutes ago, Shebeen said: I have a problem with doping being so BINARY. There should be degrees of severity here, beyond just length of sentence. Clearly the pro cycling world has a lot of grey areas. There's people with TUEs that are bollocks, microdosing to just stay below certain criteria and the list of banned substances is a living document and all sorts of other "legal" ways to gain an advantage. If it was put on a scale, on the one side you can have positive athletes like Chilliboy and Basson who were given tainted supplements(thanks USN) whilst on tour by their official team. the whole team would have tested positive as they all took them. On the other end of the scale you could put systematic cheaters (EGerman federation in the 70s/80s, Us Postal, Ricco the list is long) who went all in to cheat to gain an advantage. Instead in the public eyes you're either in the "doping" or the "non doping" camp, and the second one is often just the "not caught". I'm sure it's been done before but there really should be a doping matrix chart. it would fall down over believability of the excuse, but that is life. No Man.... Chilliboy is a poor example. He was caught doping twice, both with some sort of steroid. Drostanolone and Zeranol don't find their way into any USN products by accident. One is an anabolic steroid and the other is a sheep and cattle steroid. Chilliboy got 8 years for the 2nd zeranol offence because he was found to be unrepentant and unchanged in his approach to doping. Danger Dassie, PhilipV, DieselnDust and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted February 28, 2022 Share 48 minutes ago, Shebeen said: I have a problem with doping being so BINARY. There should be degrees of severity here, beyond just length of sentence. Clearly the pro cycling world has a lot of grey areas. There's people with TUEs that are bollocks, microdosing to just stay below certain criteria and the list of banned substances is a living document and all sorts of other "legal" ways to gain an advantage. If it was put on a scale, on the one side you can have positive athletes like Chilliboy and Basson who were given tainted supplements(thanks USN) whilst on tour by their official team. the whole team would have tested positive as they all took them. On the other end of the scale you could put systematic cheaters (EGerman federation in the 70s/80s, Us Postal, Ricco the list is long) who went all in to cheat to gain an advantage. Instead in the public eyes you're either in the "doping" or the "non doping" camp, and the second one is often just the "not caught". I'm sure it's been done before but there really should be a doping matrix chart. it would fall down over believability of the excuse, but that is life. NOt necessarily as there are many factors at play. you are assuming that all containers or tainted products were produced and packaged on the same day atthe same time and were all similarly exposed to the contaminant. That doesn't hold true in a production environment. The contaminant could very well have ended up in a few containers of which a few could have been allocated to the team and then its a lottery as to who is going to recieve those containers and then who is going to be tested ( i assume everyone). The whole thing about making athletes responsible for hat goes into the bodies is really just be absolve the big corps of responsibility. Athletes are more expendable than corporate reputation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Dassie Posted February 28, 2022 Share 3 hours ago, Shebeen said: I have a problem with doping being so BINARY. There should be degrees of severity here, beyond just length of sentence. Clearly the pro cycling world has a lot of grey areas. There's people with TUEs that are bollocks, microdosing to just stay below certain criteria and the list of banned substances is a living document and all sorts of other "legal" ways to gain an advantage. If it was put on a scale, on the one side you can have positive athletes like Chilliboy and Basson who were given tainted supplements(thanks USN) whilst on tour by their official team. the whole team would have tested positive as they all took them. On the other end of the scale you could put systematic cheaters (EGerman federation in the 70s/80s, Us Postal, Ricco the list is long) who went all in to cheat to gain an advantage. Instead in the public eyes you're either in the "doping" or the "non doping" camp, and the second one is often just the "not caught". I'm sure it's been done before but there really should be a doping matrix chart. it would fall down over believability of the excuse, but that is life. Prey much. Although the assertion on the supplements aren’t entirely correct. As already covered. Also, just about all the supplement brands will not suggest fat burners for sports. Especially today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne pudding Mol Posted February 28, 2022 Share 17 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said: Prey much. Although the assertion on the supplements aren’t entirely correct. As already covered. Also, just about all the supplement brands will not suggest fat burners for sports. Especially today. Do fat burners work ? asking for a chubby friend also he wants to know if they will make him faster ? Scary Rider, peetwindhoek and Yyyy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted marshmallows Posted February 28, 2022 Share Contamination in products are very rare but plausible. Anyone see recalls on products for glass in a batch(kit kat at the moment) or past the best before date ingredients put in??? Small chance of it happening but does happen Graves is a beast of a guy. P.s anyone see the great performance of Kevin Evans in p.e 2 plett.... well done to the organisers for upholding there own rules.... Sid the Sloth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted February 28, 2022 Share 49 minutes ago, Toasted marshmallows said: P.s anyone see the great performance of Kevin Evans in p.e 2 plett.... well done to the organisers for upholding there own rules.... What rules are you referring to? Afaik his ban is over and the lifetime ban only applies to the Epic? mecheng89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted marshmallows Posted February 28, 2022 Share On 5/6/2016 at 10:13 AM, fandacious said: Some races (like @PEPlett) have taken a hard stance against dopers and refused to allow them to race, and stripped them of titles. Other races welcome previously sanctioned cheats back with open arms. Its time for cyclists to take a stand and say: "We refuse to pay to enter a race that allows known cheats back into the fold". To this end I'm compiling a list of "dirty" and "awesome" races. I'd love the community help on this, so please let me know why a race is dirty or awesome #doperssuck http://doperssuck.co.za As mentioned in original post... seems organisers have no backbone to these stances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted February 28, 2022 Share wow its been a very long time since I've been on thehubsa. thanks for quoting my original post :) mecheng89 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted marshmallows Posted February 28, 2022 Share 15 minutes ago, fandacious said: wow its been a very long time since I've been on thehubsa. thanks for quoting my original post 😀 valid post and no organisers kept to there words... fandacious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecheng89 Posted March 9, 2022 Share https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/athletics/sprinter-thando-dlodlo-banned-for-doping-sa-stripped-of-world-relay-gold-20220308 Another one bites the dust. TheoG and Kingg 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJDT Posted March 9, 2022 Share 21 minutes ago, mecheng89 said: https://www.news24.com/sport/othersport/athletics/sprinter-thando-dlodlo-banned-for-doping-sa-stripped-of-world-relay-gold-20220308 Another one bites the dust. Wow what a team member...hope his buddies will give him a piece of their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecheng89 Posted March 9, 2022 Share 28 minutes ago, JJDT said: Wow what a team member...hope his buddies will give him a piece of their mind. Bolt et al. were caught up in the same predicament. Lots their London (?) medal because of one dufus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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