Dopers suck

[gtr1]

Did you report the Drs that were involved in cover ups?

It wasn't the doctors, it was the the cycling federation. The doctors tested and got the positives, was brushed under the carpet by the cycling body.

 

Going back many years, but I don't doubt this still happens in a lot of sports and different countries.

[Gen]

It wasn't the doctors, it was the the cycling federation. The doctors tested and got the positives, was brushed under the carpet by the cycling body.

 

Going back many years, but I don't doubt this still happens in a lot of sports and different countries.

Thx for clearing that up.. I misunderstood .

[gtr1]

No problem. Didn't explain all the details. I was a lighty of 20 at the time and didn't even know what doping was. So quite an eye opener when the doctor tells a teammate that he lost a tour coz the 2 guys who dropped him were tested positive on the particular stage.

[BDF]

Nail on head...

 

The site could also be used to support the efforts in getting the duration of bans extended... that is a large part of the feeling bubbling under here. 2yrs is clearly not enough of a punishment for most...

 

I think if a rider actually came 100% clean, admitted his faults, gave up his supplier, paid back some prize money etc etc, we'd be a lot more accommodating on the forgiveness front - but sadly most of these guys drag the sport through the muck, disappear for 2yrs and then rock up on the podium expecting us to have a modicum of respect for their achievements.

 

These are the guys we really need to chase out of our sport - if races won't have them, if sponsors wont touch them, then they will hopefully bugger off 

Agree with this. Pretty much what I tried to convey in an earlier post.

 

Also, listing so called "dirty races" will not accomplish anything good. Glad that page was deleted from the website.

[Andrew Steer]

Yes lots of people are.

He has done his time.

He has trained hard to get back to top racing form and he TOTALY deserves his win

I'm really glad his testo levels returned to normal after the whole TUE confusion 

[andydude]

They just state they are following the law. Which is fair. 

 

Although, it was also law in the past to keep slaves. Does not make it right, but its the law. 

 

A time period ban does not work for doping as has been proven, in time the laws will change and it will become, you dope, you are gone. 

 

If a CA(SA) gets caught drinking and driving, there is no 2 year ban from being a CA(SA) then registering again. Its, you get caught, you get a criminal record, good bye, game over, no rehabilitating and thanks for playing. There is zero chance that a CA(SA) will take the risk of drinking and driving. Same should go with professional athletes. 

 

Sick of these kids gloves we use on professional athletes, its the real world man up. 

 

Ok Savage, let's go further with your example; let's say the CA(SA) gets caught speeding, should he also be banned from his profession? Or not? See the grey?

[BarHugger]

Yes lots of people are.

He has done his time.

He has trained hard to get back to top racing form and he TOTALY deserves his win

But he has not done enough time......forever is not long enough.....as jy will kroek dan kry jy die boek.....I have noticed you do support him....let the personal feelings lie on the sideline and think of the real impact his acupuncture caused his rivals......

[Pure Savage]

Ok Savage, let's go further with your example; let's say the CA(SA) gets caught speeding, should he also be banned from his profession? Or not? See the grey?

 

If its deemed a criminal act, then yes.

 

In our case, if get a doping conviction, banned.

[2 X 2]

If somebody gets caught for doping and he/she is banned for a period of time (punishment) and that person serves his time, it means after that punishment it should be over.  By banning that person from participating in certain events, it means he/she are being punished twice or more times for the same offence.

 

I wonder what will happen if some cyclist takes a race organizer that want to exclude him/her from participating in their race, to court.  Because surely their freedom of movement/choice are being jeapordised? (spelling)

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not pro doping, it is just that people have rights and after serving time for doping a person should be free to practice that right

[JXV]

Let's start off with, I hate doping and dopers. I have seen it first hand, and lost to riders who doped. One day they are dropping and next day suddenly winning. Also had first hand accounts of cover ups from doctors involved. I had to make the choice, do I dope or not. Chose the or not.

 

I do have an issue with persecuting someone for the rest of their lives for doping. Coz where do you then draw the line on any infringements of laws.

 

The fight should rather be at changing the rules to have more ramifications for dopers.

 

Criminalize doping. End up with a criminal record, and serve 2 -4 years in jail. That may change a lot of minds. Also, then let's see how these guys make a comeback after sitting on their arse for a few years. Not training, on dope, while banned and then coming back even stronger.

 

Also make them liable for all costs as well as paying back all winnings and sponsorship money for the time in question. So it hits their pocket hard. That money can be used to further curb doping.

 

Suddenly it may not seem so lucrative to dope.

 

Trying to get a few guys banned from some races is not really going to have an effect on the overall problem. Because the guys that are doping are doing on the basis that they don't think they will get caught, and may never get caught, so the thought of not racing certain races later in their career is not a deterrent.

Agree with this approach. A sporting federation can only ban future participation of cheaters. The ban should be proportional to the severity of the offense.

 

However, these offenses need to also be seen as fraudulent activity, especially when unfair acquisition of winnings and sponsorships is involved. I agree also that the offender should pay back all benefits and costs. But when the ban, reparations and any criminal sentence is served....he/she can come back and race....and should expect to be monitored very closely....and some cold shoulder....and maybe some sledging.....

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Patchelicious]

Agree with this. Pretty much what I tried to convey in an earlier post.

 

Also, listing so called "dirty races" will not accomplish anything good. Glad that page was deleted from the website.

Just saw that, cool. Nice Fands!!

 

I think we as a community can promote the "Awesome Races" page, and encourage other races to join the pledge.

[andydude]

If its deemed a criminal act, then yes.

 

In our case, if get a doping conviction, banned.

 

Ok so speeding at 150km/h on the highways is fine, because it probably won't attract a criminal conviction. But speeding at 200km/h will and is wrong.

 

Can you see the problem? Both are wrong, one just more. So are you saying it's either 100% or 0% doping? No in between? I'm pretty sure almost everyone on the hub, you included, have doped in your lives through medicine, supplements, contamination, etc.

[Patchelicious]

If somebody gets caught for doping and he/she is banned for a period of time (punishment) and that person serves his time, it means after that punishment it should be over.  By banning that person from participating in certain events, it means he/she are being punished twice or more times for the same offence.

 

I wonder what will happen if some cyclist takes a race organizer that want to exclude him/her from participating in their race, to court.  Because surely their freedom of movement/choice are being jeapordised? (spelling)

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not pro doping, it is just that people have rights and after serving time for doping a person should be free to practice that right

Who? The organiser's or the doper's?

 

If I own a race, and I say that I dont want officially sanctioned dopers to participate, that is my right. I am under NO obligation to allow people in just because they want to ride. I cant just walk into your house because you let other strangers in.

[BDF]

Laws exist to regulate human interaction in a predictable, responsible way. They are mostly all written on the basis of what broad society accepts as reasonable behaviour. Most laws also include some sort of consequence for transgressing them.

 

This is why lobby groups form. To influence the lawmakers to believe that broader society feels that the laws no longer represent what they feel is reasonable. The thing is to get support from broader society so that the lobby is seen as representative and not an isolated viewpoint.

 

Said all of that to point out that it is the lawmakers who need to be lobbied, not the race organisers. They are part of society that needs to be part of the lobby. They must be on board if you want to see any sanction changes for dopers or ex-dopers (however you may define them)

[2 X 2]

Who? The organiser's or the doper's?

 

If I own a race, and I say that I dont want officially sanctioned dopers to participate, that is my right. I am under NO obligation to allow people in just because they want to ride. I cant just walk into your house because you let other strangers in.

 

Well, I don't know, I'm no legal eagle.  I just think if this get's tested in a court, the "banned" cyclist might just have a case.  If you ban someone to enter a race, on what grounds do you do it.  The person has served his time, he is no longer a doper so how can you treat him as a doper still.  I know, it is human, we don't like cheaters and we don't want anything to do with them afterwards, but legally, if you served your time and you don't cheat (dope) anymore, why should you still be punished?

[Andrew Steer]

Well, I don't know, I'm no legal eagle.  I just think if this get's tested in a court, the "banned" cyclist might just have a case.  If you ban someone to enter a race, on what grounds do you do it.  The person has served his time, he is no longer a doper so how can you treat him as a doper still.  I know, it is human, we don't like cheaters and we don't want anything to do with them afterwards, but legally, if you served your time and you don't cheat (dope) anymore, why should you still be punished?

 

Like the "Right of admission sign" above many club/pub etc doors. It's your race, you are a private entity... you can choose who you receive money from. CSA might be obliged to let them race, but for the rest of us - we will let our feelings be known.