Tubehunter Posted June 12, 2017 Share *lose... If you lose weight your pants will become loose. It has been a common issue in this thread, I thought it was only prudent somebody put a stop to it. Haaai, don't cum here whith yorr loose use of da word lose eh! What kinds of loosers do yew thinks har vizittin and let lose on us? peetwindhoek, Vetplant and Jewbacca 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted June 12, 2017 Share It's always been whack. Some days more than others, but there have always been a few fruitcakes in the mix.Are they the ones that need dates? Or just the lekker ones with cherries? Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted June 12, 2017 Share Okay after reading all the parenting advice, opinions about fair play and UCI rules, I think the following should be noted:The following words are important RACE, UCI, and the clanger "I asked him what he thought about the chance that he may loose his next trophy should he qualify to get one and he was not very concerned about it, Id rather ride with you Dad was his reply." A race for a position or medal or trophy is a controlled event by the organisers (who are responsible for the safety of the participants despite any waiver) within a clear and fair set of rules (being either UCI, CSA, PPA or own improvised rules). One of the rules normally includes "participants may not receive ANY EXTERNAL assistance". If one parent can coach, cajole and motivate (even subconsciously) their child the entire route, then every child should be allowed to have a coach sitting on their wheel as well. An interesting logistic challenge which could be fun to watch, U12 MTB could become a real spectator sport. So the answer should be: if you ride with your child/wife/same sex partner ext, who are RACING for a place in a different category to you (which means if you are not racing they are in a different category to you) then you are giving EXTERNAL assistance and are thus cheating. However, if you are just riding and neither of you are not planning to ACCEPT ANY TROPHY, PRIZE MONEY or MEDAL even if you qualify, then you can be deemed to be fun riders, and therefore not competing, and therefore not bound by the rules of the RACE.What he said. Enjoy riding with your laaitie but don't influence a different category. And I saw a laaitie fix a chain. #strue Andrew Steer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted June 12, 2017 Share Okay after reading all the parenting advice, opinions about fair play and UCI rules, I think the following should be noted:The following words are important RACE, UCI, and the clanger "I asked him what he thought about the chance that he may loose his next trophy should he qualify to get one and he was not very concerned about it, Id rather ride with you Dad was his reply." A race for a position or medal or trophy is a controlled event by the organisers (who are responsible for the safety of the participants despite any waiver) within a clear and fair set of rules (being either UCI, CSA, PPA or own improvised rules). One of the rules normally includes "participants may not receive ANY EXTERNAL assistance". If one parent can coach, cajole and motivate (even subconsciously) their child the entire route, then every child should be allowed to have a coach sitting on their wheel as well. An interesting logistic challenge which could be fun to watch, U12 MTB could become a real spectator sport. So the answer should be: if you ride with your child/wife/same sex partner ext, who are RACING for a place in a different category to you (which means if you are not racing they are in a different category to you) then you are giving EXTERNAL assistance and are thus cheating. However, if you are just riding and neither of you are not planning to ACCEPT ANY TROPHY, PRIZE MONEY or MEDAL even if you qualify, then you can be deemed to be fun riders, and therefore not competing, and therefore not bound by the rules of the RACE. If you don't start categories separately anyway its unfair. A U/14 could sit on the wheel of a U/18. Then it becomes who can hang onto wheels the best. If its a mixed start then the organisers must realise that the competitors will sit on other people's wheels etc as well. Maybe the other parents should get on the bike and see who can be the best domestique L46, haasbroek and the nerd 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetplant Posted June 12, 2017 Share If its a mixed start then the organisers must realise that the competitors will sit on other people's wheels etc as well. Maybe the other parents should get on the bike and see who can be the best domestique This , thank you and goodbye. the nerd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted June 12, 2017 Share , Id rather ride with you Dad was his reply." .Treasure that answer. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk RyanD, Vetplant, haasbroek and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted June 12, 2017 Share If you don't start categories separately anyway its unfair. A U/14 could sit on the wheel of a U/18. Then it becomes who can hang onto wheels the best. If its a mixed start then the organisers must realise that the competitors will sit on other people's wheels etc as well. Maybe the other parents should get on the bike and see who can be the best domestique Given... er... events, creating a Pure Savvy-Kids train of competitive parents could be the worst idea since he who should not be selfied tried to sell those tyres or whatever... #justathought Pure Savage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Wheel Base Posted June 12, 2017 Share OP, I am 32, My toppie is 61 and we still race together on the tandem. I sometimes race VA and sure, my times are faster but I just enjoy riding with him so much more and we still do well any way. So although I am not in the same boat as you with regards to this apparent rule I can kinda see where you are coming from. Soon your lightie will be faster than you and then the old okes in your category will complain because you are being pushed by a youngster.......Enjoy riding with your kids, you will be suprised how many families actually can't stand being together!! scotty, Shebeen, RyanD and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Forward Posted June 12, 2017 Share Here's a few extracts from the CSA MTB regulations (on their website:In respect of XCM:'Unsporting behaviour' - ...pushing or pulling another competitor, leaning on another competitor...I cant find anything about a 5 min rule. Im not familiar with PPA rules. Sent from my SM-J105F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 12, 2017 Share Here's a few extracts from the CSA MTB regulations (on their website:In respect of XCM:'Unsporting behaviour' - ...pushing or pulling another competitor, leaning on another competitor...I cant find anything about a 5 min rule. Im not familiar with PPA rules. Sent from my SM-J105F using TapatalkPut it down to over zealous, self important CSA rep making up the rules. Tubehunter, FCH, Pure Savage and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 12, 2017 Share I've spent a few years riding with my boys getting them used to MTB riding and then a few races. For what it's worth I rode with them for around 2 years in "fun" rides, always starting in slower batches and never gave them physical assistance, but did offer verbal guidance and and advise. Also assisted with the odd chain drop and puncture. However, as the older one (now 13) showed potential I told him straight he was now on his own, and I expect him to be completely self sufficient. In my opinion (which follows no rule book etc) is that as soon as the word "race" is used or implied, they must be completely on their own. Other options to consider when a parent is worried about "safety" is to perhaps focus on XC type races where the laps are short and will help ease them into things. Or, look at other disciplines of cycling like BMX even. Until they older. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk as good a reply as any to jump into this thread ... Maritz turns 6 end of the month. So YES, I ride with him in fun rides and trails. We often stop and discuss lines for the next section, staying left while others pass us, latetly started talking about gears .... This obviously affords me the opportunity to observe other parents and kids .... from the true caring parents to the wanna-be racers living out through their kids .... Fortunately most of the former. Getting lost - I have seen ADULTS take the wrong route, with Maritz stopping to confirm that we are supposed to turn at the arrow/marker ... Bike repairs - many adults that cant repair their bike along the trail ..... MY view on "racing" .... if KIDS are racing an adult should NOT be in the mix. It is yet another rider for the other kids to pass ..... At the last fun-ride good cash prizes were given to the first three males and females in each distance .... SON and father took 1 and 2 in the short distance .... sorry, that second price belonged to the next KID. All fine and dandy, enjoy the ride with your kid, but shame on you for taking another kids prize. Another 2 or 3 years down the line that may be Maritz trying for a podium finish .... I may try to keep up with him, but WONT take a prize from another kid. (and I KNOW the OP indicated he did not) BigDL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted June 12, 2017 Share OP, I am 32, My toppie is 61 and we still race together on the tandem. I sometimes race VA and sure, my times are faster but I just enjoy riding with him so much more and we still do well any way. So although I am not in the same boat as you with regards to this apparent rule I can kinda see where you are coming from. Soon your lightie will be faster than you and then the old okes in your category will complain because you are being pushed by a youngster.......Enjoy riding with your kids, you will be suprised how many families actually can't stand being together!! so true and so sad ..... Long Wheel Base and BigDL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcg Posted June 12, 2017 Share Gummi summed it up. So, discussion closed.One addition (sorry): get some external coaching too i.e. a qualified coach. Unless you have racing/pro experience yourself, you just might be teaching your kid incorrect techniques (just saying).But, am all for coaching kids in the correct form and etiquette! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Cycling Athletic Club Posted June 12, 2017 Share from what i understand - it an 'open race' and the organisers are giving out trophies for u12's. the fastest ones wins. the op should ask the organisers for their rules. UCI only regulate from juniors and older. local rules - go to CSA website for Mtb rules and read!!! coaching is allowed BUT ignoring an officials directive will get u into trouble ie official might have thought that the youngster was gaining an unfair advantage hence quickly made up the 5 minute rule. get to know the rules even if you eyeball scan it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure Savage Posted June 12, 2017 Share Spammer in the works, what if you ride with your friends kid and he rides with yours? I was going to make the example with spouses but thought better than to suggest riding your mates wife. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk BigDL and Mamil 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubehunter Posted June 12, 2017 Share There's two threads of thought in this discussion. The first is focussing on the rules regarding open class racing where categories are decided purely on finished time amongst the mass start field and the rule wording for what is considered outside assistance when both of you are entered riders. As many have suggested from the OPs explanation it doesn't sound like he is doing anything dodgy and it seems like the passion of cycling is expanding through the family which can only be a good thing for your riding and racing time (and theirs! Everyone wins!) The second discussion point is based on the more subliminal factors. How far can you take the paired race day experience before you contravene any rules? Some are suggesting that just because you race together you have an unfair advantage. However, nothing is preventing any of the other parents from racing too. Again this is assuming that there is no cheating with pushing or similar coming into play and you're simply racing together. This all has a grey area of opinion as some consider drafting okay and others will think you're manipulating the race! How about throwing this whole idea on its head and asking this question. Who do you want your son to be when he grows up? Someone who is prepared to do whatever it takes to win and bend whatever rules he can, so that he only wins with assistance? Or would you want him to be a fully aware adult who understands the value of fair competition that feels the personal joy of rising to his own challenges whether he succeeds or fails, but knows he did his best? Once you have figured out where your focus is then you'll know what options to chose on race day! Edited June 12, 2017 by Tubehunter BigDL and Pure Savage 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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