Tour de France 2018

[Eldron]

Guys all the teams prepare more or less the same and are equally disciplined, this that they are miles ahead is hogwash, what they do have that others don't is a bigger budget and able to lure the best riders for the GT job to their team. IMO

 

 

 

 

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They don't need to be miles ahead. Tours are won on fractions of a percent theae days (even if you remove the flat stage dead time).

 

I reckon the devil is in the little details. Silly things like Skys dotty skinsuits. "Marginal Gains" has become a bit of a joke of course but in a world where seconds count I reckon Sky are counting more seconds.

 

Or it's doping. Civilians like us will never really know. All we have is opinions. Tons and tons of opinions ????

[GaryvdM]

I’m waiting for someone to make a comparison to .......

 

 

Ok, I'll be the one to take the bait.

 

US Postal/Discovery

 

/me runs and ducks.

[Eldron]

To many similarities to the US Postal days of doping, the way that Froome and Thomas attacked yesterday is not normal"' remember Mr Landis's famous attack in 2006 . You cannot drop quality riders like that on a climb. You can buy a whole fleet of Dr's but there is only so much to the human ability-I remain sceptical and will not be clouded by the belief that they have better Dr's, budget, etc.

Using that logic TommyD is doping too - he rode by himself for ages then towed Thomas for several km and still had the energy to outsprint Froome!

 

There are too many controls and checks for EPO/HGH/Testo/blood doping etc. Sky may be abusing TUEs and Salb but I reckon the Armstrong days arw long gone. Each to their own I guess...

[GaryvdM]

 

Who is the guy second from the left? He looks so familiar, but I can't place from where.

[Cheese]

It's more of a mountain than that:

http://africasteam.com/2018/05/07/vision-2020-begins/

 

 

 

Now what is the chances of DDD winning the 2020 TdF with an african rider?

Obviously the first thing they need to do is change the team from a sprint train to a GC team with climbers. Essentially buy a new team, not many okes with a Q on their back once the mountains arrive.

 

 

 

You can buy climbers and support, let's just assume they can buy their own skyborgs (because that is what you need).

Who is going to be your African winner.

*The only clear option is Maincheese. He is a long way from winning any big bike race currently, so there is no way they can put all their eggs in the basket.

 

*They've had nic dlamini in some of their promo stuff for Vision 2020, but he's not really an option for winning the biggest cycle race in 24 months time. I don't see who else would be a GC contender from south africa

 

*most of their "other" african riders have been dropped from the squad, they have just 4 left. Could they find some Ethiopian/Kenyan mountaingoat and turn him into a TdF winner in 24 months?

 

*speaking of Kenyan Mountain Goats...there is one other option who was born in Kenya, raced in South Africa and could definitely be considered African. I'm not sure how long his contract is with 21st century fox, but it would probably need the team to fold for him to consider a move. and it wouldn't really be seen as a developing an african winner of the tour either.

Currently their best bets are on Ben Oconnor getting some good placings in Vuelta and if LM can get going again they can do something at the Vuelta , but it does not look good so far.

 

Must say I was thinking something like this would happen to Cav. If you had a look at some of the stages it looks like he was just  too tired to sprint. He was sprinting to keep up with other teams .

The last sprint looked the most promising though, but with so mane more mountain stages he would never have made it. Was the first rider to get dropped on Tuesday already.

[Oxter]

To many similarities to the US Postal days of doping, the way that Froome and Thomas attacked yesterday is not normal"' remember Mr Landis's famous attack in 2006 . You cannot drop quality riders like that on a climb. You can buy a whole fleet of Dr's but there is only so much to the human ability-I remain sceptical and will not be clouded by the belief that they have better Dr's, budget, etc.  

 

Using that logic TommyD is doping too - he rode by himself for ages then towed Thomas for several km and still had the energy to outsprint Froome!

 

There are too many controls and checks for EPO/HGH/Testo/blood doping etc. Sky may be abusing TUEs and Salb but I reckon the Armstrong days arw long gone. Each to their own I guess...

Dan martin as well as he was the one that pulled CF from that group...

 

People will see what they want to see i guess

Edited July 19, 2018 by Oxter

[nochain]

Guys all the teams prepare more or less the same and are equally disciplined, this that they are miles ahead is hogwash, what they do have that others don't is a bigger budget and able to lure the best riders for the GT job to their team. IMO

 

 

 

 

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I dont agree fully with that..certainly for most teams but we forget that Movistar, Astana, Bmc and probably UAe are big big budget teams..QS also. Sky just focussed on winning GT's..BMC wants to do all and Movistar also all over the place..QS winning at will.

Sky just focussed on doing 1 thing very very good.

I mean what do you think Valverde,Quintana and Landa costs to keep on..nevermind all their other stars.

I dont for 1 moment believe the Sky top 5 is stronger than Movistar..they just much more structured and they have the best rider in the world as leader.

 

Training wise I also think they much more committed..lots of the riders has said that they were amazed at how hard someone like Froome trains and how crazy his diet is.

 

But mostly its the riders that is to be blamed for the way they approach the race.Yesterday's stage was a prime opportunity to join forces with other Gc riders but No they just look at each other.

[Eldron]

I dont agree fully with that..certainly for most teams but we forget that Movistar, Astana, Bmc and probably UAe are big big budget teams..QS also. Sky just focussed on winning GT's..BMC wants to do all and Movistar also all over the place..QS winning at will.

Sky just focussed on doing 1 thing very very good.

I mean what do you think Valverde,Quintana and Landa costs to keep on..nevermind all their other stars.

I dont for 1 moment believe the Sky top 5 is stronger than Movistar..they just much more structured and they have the best rider in the world as leader.

 

Training wise I also think they much more committed..lots of the riders has said that they were amazed at how hard someone like Froome trains and how crazy his diet is.

 

But mostly its the riders that is to be blamed for the way they approach the race.Yesterday's stage was a prime opportunity to join forces with other Gc riders but No they just look at each other.

 

Two good points!

 

If we're going to base our doping accusations at anything "not normal" then Sagan and the Wolfpack's 2018 season are front and centre of the doping sights!

 

Good call on Sky's single focus - sure they dabble in the classics but GTs are their things.

 

A question for the "Sky is not normal" crew - do you really think they're doping and if so what drugs do you think they're using?

[ScottCM]

Guys all the teams prepare more or less the same and are equally disciplined, this that they are miles ahead is hogwash, what they do have that others don't is a bigger budget and able to lure the best riders for the GT job to their team. IMO

 

 

 

 

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I listened to an interesting podcast the other day on this topic and what was said made sense to my naive brain. 

 

Let's say there are 10 different disciplines in the daily routine of a GC contending team. Now Movistar are as dedicated as sky on # 1,5,8,9. Sunweb # 2, 3, 6, Astana #1, 10 etc etc, the difference with Sky is that they are pedantic about # 1 - 10 (ALL OF THEM), not just the ones that they are good at, that's where the real margin gains come in.  

[nickc]

^{Rigoberto Uran has withdrawn from the 2018 Tour de France ahead of the start of stage 12 on Tuesday. The Colombian crashed heavily on Sunday’s Roubaix stage, resulting in pain his left leg and arm and compromising his ability to pedal.}

^{EF Education First – Drapac p/b Cannondale harbored hope for a rest day recovery, but the effects of the crash lingered.}

^{“Today I have to share some bad news,” said Uran. “I didn’t recover after the crash. Yesterday in the first real climb, all day, there was pain in my body.”}

^{“The most important thing is the rider’s health,” said head sport director Charly Wegelius. “Rigo hasn’t recovered from his crash on the cobbled stage, and his position on the bike is compromised and could create further issues down the line,” Wegelius said. “We along with Rigo felt it best to pull out of the Tour this morning so he can recover and look toward the remainder of the season.}

^{“Ultimately this decision comes down to the rider,” Wegelius added. “If a rider wants to continue the race, we look to ways to do that safely. If a rider feels it best to pull out, we do not push them to continue.”}

^{Prior to Uran’s crash, EF Education First – Drapac p/b Cannondale had enjoyed a strong first week in the Tour. Highlights included reaching the finish on the right side of several splits in the bunch throughout the opening week, exceeding expectations in the team time trial and a quick reaction to a mass pile-up in the closing kilometers of stage four. Uran had worked his way up to sixth overall ahead of stage nine before tumbling out of general classification contention following the crash.}

^{“It’s difficult for me and also for my team,” said Uran. “We prepared for this Tour, all season we were focused on the Tour. Sometimes this happens, and this time, I think it’s the best decision for me to recover and to recover well.”}

^{Uran’s exit signals a shift in tactics for #PinkArgyle. The team’s Tour squad had been built around Uran, who finished second in the 2017 Tour de France. The riders chosen to support Uran’s quest to win the Tour will now target stages in the 10 remaining stages. It’s a familiar approach for the American-registered squad.}

^{“We’ll miss Rigo of course – he’s a great leader and a wonderful presence to have on the bus and with the staff,” said team CEO Jonathan Vaughters. “We look forward to getting him back healthy for the rest of the season. The guys that remain are fighters, and we have some chances coming up in the mountains. For us, another Tour begins today.”}

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by nickc

[Gen]

Two good points!

 

If we're going to base our doping accusations at anything "not normal" then Sagan and the Wolfpack's 2018 season are front and centre of the doping sights!

 

Good call on Sky's single focus - sure they dabble in the classics but GTs are their things.

 

A question for the "Sky is not normal" crew - do you really think they're doping and if so what drugs do you think they're using?

No one on here is saying anything about doping.[emoji849]

 

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[Eldron]

No one on here is saying anything about doping.[emoji849]

 

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I was referring to this guy:

 

To many similarities to the US Postal days of doping, the way that Froome and Thomas attacked yesterday is not normal"' remember Mr Landis's famous attack in 2006 . You cannot drop quality riders like that on a climb. You can buy a whole fleet of Dr's but there is only so much to the human ability-I remain sceptical and will not be clouded by the belief that they have better Dr's, budget, etc.  

[ScottCM]

Uran withdraws from Tour de France due to injuries sustained on Roubaix stage

[Gen]

^{Rigoberto Uran has withdrawn from the 2018 Tour de France ahead of the start of stage 12 on Tuesday. The Colombian crashed heavily on Sunday’s Roubaix stage, resulting in pain his left leg and arm and compromising his ability to pedal.}

^{EF Education First – Drapac p/b Cannondale harbored hope for a rest day recovery, but the effects of the crash lingered.}

^{“Today I have to share some bad news,” said Uran. “I didn’t recover after the crash. Yesterday in the first real climb, all day, there was pain in my body.”}

^{“The most important thing is the rider’s health,” said head sport director Charly Wegelius. “Rigo hasn’t recovered from his crash on the cobbled stage, and his position on the bike is compromised and could create further issues down the line,” Wegelius said. “We along with Rigo felt it best to pull out of the Tour this morning so he can recover and look toward the remainder of the season.}

^{“Ultimately this decision comes down to the rider,” Wegelius added. “If a rider wants to continue the race, we look to ways to do that safely. If a rider feels it best to pull out, we do not push them to continue.”}

^{Prior to Uran’s crash, EF Education First – Drapac p/b Cannondale had enjoyed a strong first week in the Tour. Highlights included reaching the finish on the right side of several splits in the bunch throughout the opening week, exceeding expectations in the team time trial and a quick reaction to a mass pile-up in the closing kilometers of stage four. Uran had worked his way up to sixth overall ahead of stage nine before tumbling out of general classification contention following the crash.}

^{“It’s difficult for me and also for my team,” said Uran. “We prepared for this Tour, all season we were focused on the Tour. Sometimes this happens, and this time, I think it’s the best decision for me to recover and to recover well.”}

^{Uran’s exit signals a shift in tactics for #PinkArgyle. The team’s Tour squad had been built around Uran, who finished second in the 2017 Tour de France. The riders chosen to support Uran’s quest to win the Tour will now target stages in the 10 remaining stages. It’s a familiar approach for the American-registered squad.}

^{“We’ll miss Rigo of course – he’s a great leader and a wonderful presence to have on the bus and with the staff,” said team CEO Jonathan Vaughters. “We look forward to getting him back healthy for the rest of the season. The guys that remain are fighters, and we have some chances coming up in the mountains. For us, another Tour begins today.”}

 

 

 

 

 

Aaaw this is sad news

 

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[Gen]

I was referring to this guy:

 

To many similarities to the US Postal days of doping, the way that Froome and Thomas attacked yesterday is not normal"' remember Mr Landis's famous attack in 2006 . You cannot drop quality riders like that on a climb. You can buy a whole fleet of Dr's but there is only so much to the human ability-I remain sceptical and will not be clouded by the belief that they have better Dr's, budget, etc.

[emoji1303]

 

There are similarities in how they race sky train same as the USP team in the way they ride the race, that is sure..but just cleaner..(we think or hope time will tell who knows this is cycling after all) their focus was only the TDF the other races were I suppose to look like they were trying.

 

Sky's model is built on the USP model minus the EPO and other bloodwork.

 

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Edited July 19, 2018 by Gen

[Jase619]

[emoji1303]

 

There are similarities in how they race sky train same as the USP team in the way they ride the race, that is sure..but just cleaner..(we think or hope time will tell who knows this is cycling after all) their focus was only the TDF the other races were I suppose to look like they were trying.

 

Sky's model is built on the USP model minus the EPO and other bloodwork.

 

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So they took something that worked from a bad situation, and made it better. I like that, even if it doesn't make for great spectating.