Mtb sram vs shimano

[Grease_Monkey]

Ive tried it and I hated it. Gear jumps were horrible. Its so jarring. I can fine tune literally any ratio I want from my bike by switching to a bigger or smaller ring and jumping around a bit on the cassette. If the difference between two cogs is a bit too great I can mix it up with the front end and fine tune it at the rear. You cant do that on a 1X. If the difference between two cogs is too big. Well sorry for you cause the rear is all you got.

 

And again I don't need to sell entire chainrings if my bike comes with chainrings that are too big or too small for me. I don't have that issue. Honestly whats the issue with the front derailleur anyway? Front shifting at least from Shimano's side has always been stellar. I've always found Srams front shifting performance to be lacking by comparison on road and mtb. Maybe that is why Sram is doing it. Can't get the FD right. So they tuck tail and run instead.

A couple of years ago Sram got rid of 3x and went 2x while Shimano stuck to the 3x game, and many had the exact argument you have now. History is just repeating itself. 1x took a couple of years to get right, but with Eagle 1x12 gear jumps are small, range is perfect, and shifting is excellent. Give it another 2 years and Shimano will be purely 1x as well, just like they followed Srams lead and went 2x for all their major groupsets a couple years back....

 

And in all honesty, with the right Cassette, the jumps in 1x are not big at all. And on top of all of this, I don't support 1x for the weight saving. I support it for the following:

 

- Simplicity, only easier or harder.

- No big jump in gears when going to smaller cog on hill. With 2x you cruise along in your big ring, then hit the hill, switxh over to the small ring, spin like crazy for a few seconds while frantically shifting to a hrder gear on your cassette, not an issue at all with 1x.

- Chains can be the right length with 1x eliminating chain slap.

- No cross chaining can take place.

- There is now space for a droper post lever, unlike 2x and the horrible levers associated therewith.

- My cockpit is neater.

- One less thing to maintain.

- I can use an oval ring instead of round rings - not for everyone, but I love it.

- I can run a chain device with a nice bash guard which is not possible with 2x.

- Frames can be designed with shorter chainstays, for an enduro/AM bike it is a major advantage.

 

I'm not bashing 2x - just giving my reasoning for going 1x. If 2x works for you stick with it - I just think some of the points are moot with the new Eagle 1x12 having just been released.

 

Of course, the other option is to get an e-bike, then we can all go 1x7 haha (read with sarcasm please).

[Alastair_S1D]

Simplicity I can certainly understand. But the rest not so much. Even with the right cassette choice you don't get any over lap. And sometimes a bit of overlap is just what you need to just get the right ratio. With 1x there is no in between. Only a bigger a smaller cog. There isn't a middle ratio you can find unless you got the ring to help you do it.

 

I agree weight is a moot point. You can't look me straight in the eye and tell me the dinner plate sized cassette is lighter than a 36T or 38T ring. So yeah. Glad we see the same on that one. In my personal opinion. I think these massive cassettes really ruin the aesthetic of a bike. I can't stand em.

 

If you aren't in the right gear when you hit the climb that you suddenly need to be dumping cogs in order to get the right ratio you are doing it wrong anyway. If you are good at managing your gears by the time you get to the climb when you drop the ring all you gotta do is dump a cog or two at most to kinda equalise your cadence. And with my M785 shifters I can dump two cogs per throw. So I spend very little time if any at all spinning after dropping a ring. So I think that arguments pretty moot.

 

Why are people cross chaining? Don't they know how to shift?

 

Dropper post. If you want / need it cool. It helps clean up clutter sure. For me. I have no use for a dropper so for me that's a non issue.

 

I'm using an older non clutch RD. But as far as I am aware clutched RDs are pretty damn good by themselves from removing chain slap. But a little less won't hurt.

 

One less thing to maintain I think is a pretty moot point. FDs didn't need much care anyway. Just clean em and lube em. You wash and lube your bike anyway what's it hurt to spend two mins on the FD? Maybe five of your frame still has external cables.

 

Oval rings. Never tried em?

 

I think shimano launched the new front swing FD to also help with the shorter chainstay as it moves the main pivot forward?

 

I think 1x has its advantages. But I also think 2x does as well. I think there is space for both to exist in the market which is why I am vehemently opposed to such a push by manufacturers kind of forcing 1X on us. For me 1x doesn't work. It just doesn't agree with the way I ride. I think it's cool. And certainly has advantages. But I just don't think one size fits all. And I don't think we should be forced to only have one option.

[Eugene]

Shimano = CRC,Bike 24, Wiggle = cheap

SRAM = SA importer = expensive

[Grease_Monkey]

Simplicity I can certainly understand. But the rest not so much. Even with the right cassette choice you don't get any over lap. And sometimes a bit of overlap is just what you need to just get the right ratio. With 1x there is no in between. Only a bigger a smaller cog. There isn't a middle ratio you can find unless you got the ring to help you do it.

 

I agree weight is a moot point. You can't look me straight in the eye and tell me the dinner plate sized cassette is lighter than a 36T or 38T ring. So yeah. Glad we see the same on that one. In my personal opinion. I think these massive cassettes really ruin the aesthetic of a bike. I can't stand em.

 

If you aren't in the right gear when you hit the climb that you suddenly need to be dumping cogs in order to get the right ratio you are doing it wrong anyway. If you are good at managing your gears by the time you get to the climb when you drop the ring all you gotta do is dump a cog or two at most to kinda equalise your cadence. And with my M785 shifters I can dump two cogs per throw. So I spend very little time if any at all spinning after dropping a ring. So I think that arguments pretty moot.

 

Why are people cross chaining? Don't they know how to shift?

 

Dropper post. If you want / need it cool. It helps clean up clutter sure. For me. I have no use for a dropper so for me that's a non issue.

 

I'm using an older non clutch RD. But as far as I am aware clutched RDs are pretty damn good by themselves from removing chain slap. But a little less won't hurt.

 

One less thing to maintain I think is a pretty moot point. FDs didn't need much care anyway. Just clean em and lube em. You wash and lube your bike anyway what's it hurt to spend two mins on the FD? Maybe five of your frame still has external cables.

 

Oval rings. Never tried em?

 

I think shimano launched the new front swing FD to also help with the shorter chainstay as it moves the main pivot forward?

 

I think 1x has its advantages. But I also think 2x does as well. I think there is space for both to exist in the market which is why I am vehemently opposed to such a push by manufacturers kind of forcing 1X on us. For me 1x doesn't work. It just doesn't agree with the way I ride. I think it's cool. And certainly has advantages. But I just don't think one size fits all. And I don't think we should be forced to only have one option.

You're right, for every advantage of 1x in my eyes there is a disadvantage for 1x in yours, or for that matter an advantage for 2x.

 

I guess it really is horses for courses, or what floats your boat. I agree as well on the front that the new FDs are excellent, I guess just like 2x isn't for me, 1x isn't for you.

 

Let's hope for your sake and others like you that the FD does stay, if I just look at the industry and where it is going I predict it will be gone in a few years. But I get your frustration, although I don't share it in this particular case, I think every single mtber has felt the utter frustration/anger (call it what you want), when spending a ton on new parts or a bike, only to find a month or two later that there is a new standard that makes the tech outdated. There is a fine line between innovation, and change for the sake of change! And that change just for the sake of change has to stop, although I doubt it will - most of us gobble the marketing BS and hype and waste our well earned money om whatever new part or standard there is in a heartbeat.

[Acerunner]

A couple of years ago Sram got rid of 3x and went 2x while Shimano stuck to the 3x game, and many had the exact argument you have now. History is just repeating itself. 1x took a couple of years to get right, but with Eagle 1x12 gear jumps are small, range is perfect, and shifting is excellent. Give it another 2 years and Shimano will be purely 1x as well, just like they followed Srams lead and went 2x for all their major groupsets a couple years back....

 

And in all honesty, with the right Cassette, the jumps in 1x are not big at all. And on top of all of this, I don't support 1x for the weight saving. I support it for the following:

 

- Simplicity, only easier or harder.

- No big jump in gears when going to smaller cog on hill. With 2x you cruise along in your big ring, then hit the hill, switxh over to the small ring, spin like crazy for a few seconds while frantically shifting to a hrder gear on your cassette, not an issue at all with 1x.

- Chains can be the right length with 1x eliminating chain slap.

- No cross chaining can take place.

- There is now space for a droper post lever, unlike 2x and the horrible levers associated therewith.

- My cockpit is neater.

- One less thing to maintain.

- I can use an oval ring instead of round rings - not for everyone, but I love it.

- I can run a chain device with a nice bash guard which is not possible with 2x.

- Frames can be designed with shorter chainstays, for an enduro/AM bike it is a major advantage.

 

I'm not bashing 2x - just giving my reasoning for going 1x. If 2x works for you stick with it - I just think some of the points are moot with the new Eagle 1x12 having just been released.

 

Of course, the other option is to get an e-bike, then we can all go 1x7 haha (read with sarcasm please).

Agreed

[Tothehills]

To answer your questions is simple.

It's about trust and reliability.

 

Only if you have a stick in one hand and a lever in the other, with some super charged creature on the other end will you understand. For me there is only one option. Until the other manufacturer can offer this, would I reconsider.

 

 

Picture below will answer your question

 

 

 

 

[Skott5]

There we go ... shimano for fishing, SRAM for cycling ..

[Odinson]

There really is place in the market for both 1x and 2x systems. 

 

Although I will never personally run a FD on my bike ever again, I can understand why some would want to, especially for those who are more into marathon style riding. If you're riding is mire gravity focused, then the jumps in sprocket sizes is negligible. 

 

My wife's bike currently has a 2x10 Shimano drivetrain and I must admit that the new side swing front mech is buttery smooth and takes up little space. The main pain in the ass for me with 2x drivetrains is the poor chain retention, extra lever on the bar and the hassle of cleaning around the BB when things got muddy on a ride. 

 

Horses for courses, at the end of the day. 

[MTBeer]

Simplicity I can certainly understand. But the rest not so much. Even with the right cassette choice you don't get any over lap. And sometimes a bit of overlap is just what you need to just get the right ratio. With 1x there is no in between. Only a bigger a smaller cog. There isn't a middle ratio you can find unless you got the ring to help you do it.

 

I agree weight is a moot point. You can't look me straight in the eye and tell me the dinner plate sized cassette is lighter than a 36T or 38T ring. So yeah. Glad we see the same on that one. In my personal opinion. I think these massive cassettes really ruin the aesthetic of a bike. I can't stand em.

 

If you aren't in the right gear when you hit the climb that you suddenly need to be dumping cogs in order to get the right ratio you are doing it wrong anyway. If you are good at managing your gears by the time you get to the climb when you drop the ring all you gotta do is dump a cog or two at most to kinda equalise your cadence. And with my M785 shifters I can dump two cogs per throw. So I spend very little time if any at all spinning after dropping a ring. So I think that arguments pretty moot.

 

Why are people cross chaining? Don't they know how to shift?

 

Dropper post. If you want / need it cool. It helps clean up clutter sure. For me. I have no use for a dropper so for me that's a non issue.

 

I'm using an older non clutch RD. But as far as I am aware clutched RDs are pretty damn good by themselves from removing chain slap. But a little less won't hurt.

 

One less thing to maintain I think is a pretty moot point. FDs didn't need much care anyway. Just clean em and lube em. You wash and lube your bike anyway what's it hurt to spend two mins on the FD? Maybe five of your frame still has external cables.

 

Oval rings. Never tried em?

 

I think shimano launched the new front swing FD to also help with the shorter chainstay as it moves the main pivot forward?

 

I think 1x has its advantages. But I also think 2x does as well. I think there is space for both to exist in the market which is why I am vehemently opposed to such a push by manufacturers kind of forcing 1X on us. For me 1x doesn't work. It just doesn't agree with the way I ride. I think it's cool. And certainly has advantages. But I just don't think one size fits all. And I don't think we should be forced to only have one option.

yeah like when you're riding a trail for the first time and you go around a blind corner only to be faced with a 30% biaatch little climb. Personally I'm never in the right gear for those...

 

As for the second bit in red - whaaaaaat!!!?

[Eddy Gordo]

There we go ... shimano for fishing, SRAM for cycling ..

Shimano started cycling parts in 1921 and then fishing around 1970.

During that time they developed the freewheel and 3 speed hubs.

[Jehosefat]

yeah like when you're riding a trail for the first time and you go around a blind corner only to be faced with a 30% biaatch little climb. Personally I'm never in the right gear for those...

 

As for the second bit in red - whaaaaaat!!!?

XT shifters FTW, can grab 4 cogs at a time 

[Grey Hubs]

From my understanding, 1x has more "Cross Chain" or friction on the gears than a 2x, used correctly.

Would this be an accurate assumption on both SRAM and Shimano??

 

PS. I use both 1x and 2x. When I use the 2x, the gears seems a lot quieter and smoother...But i also enjoy the 1x simplicity...

 

I'm talking non-corrective measures like +5 on Pyga and Boost

[Popit]

I always swore by a 2X .

Last November I bought a new bike which came with XX1 , 1x11 .

Took me about 1 ride adapt .

There is very little doubt in my mind that for me , the 1X is WAY better .

I never need to worry about the FD .

Gearing seems to suit me , I have a 10-42 with a 34 up front .

I have not really had a problem with gear ratio's , but one thing I can say is that it takes a sh..load of strenght to push that 34/10 on anything less than a 3% decline .

[Jewbacca]

I like this thread... It started out as a product war then turned into a discussion on what I think is a pretty hot topic.

 

1x is definitely fantastic if you ride places like Jonkers and Tokai and enjoy throwing some shapes on the mountain. With the range on the new stuff, being able to run a bigger chainring and still have a bail out gear of around 0.72 (think 36/50 or 34/46) is standard.

 

I do however put 20 gears on my bike when I go out into the wilderness for an expedition race. Riding with a 10kg pack on legs that have carried you over mountains with little to no sleep inbetween legs is grueling. I tried to ride 1x this year and I hated it. 2018 in the Cederberg with have bail out granny of 22 teeth and a big gravel ring of 38 which makes the loong miles a little easier to tick away while falling asleep on the bike!

 

Both systems definitely have their place. It would be silly to do away with the tech entirely, but maybe downscaling the 55 ranges of it would be a good start. It doesn't need to come in XTR/XT/Deore and and and... make it and XT add on, make 2 different 11-36 cassettes and move on.

[Martin PJ]

Used to have SRAM components mostly on mine and son's bike,  slowly converting everything to Shimano as we go along. Shimano is better for what you are paying.

 

I do like my 1x10, having used it for 2 years. Having seen the advantages and disadvantages, if a new bike came with 2x I would just leave it.

 

I use an oval chain ring, but honestly can't see any difference. It felt funny the first few minutes I rode it, that was about it.

 

Rode with a dropper post for a couple of years, now use a ZOOM suspension post off eBay on my hard tail. It gives 5 cm of travel and it is fantastic. This is the most under rated piece of kit ever. 

[ChUkKy]

Ive tried it and I hated it. Gear jumps were horrible. Its so jarring. I can fine tune literally any ratio I want from my bike by switching to a bigger or smaller ring and jumping around a bit on the cassette. If the difference between two cogs is a bit too great I can mix it up with the front end and fine tune it at the rear. You cant do that on a 1X. If the difference between two cogs is too big. Well sorry for you cause the rear is all you got. 

 

And again I don't need to sell entire chainrings if my bike comes with chainrings that are too big or too small for me. I don't have that issue. Honestly whats the issue with the front derailleur anyway? Front shifting at least from Shimano's side has always been stellar. I've always found Srams front shifting performance to be lacking by comparison on road and mtb. Maybe that is why Sram is doing it. Can't get the FD right. So they tuck tail and run instead.