Advice on Divorce

[New Landy new life]

How on earth do you keep a divorce agreement without a lawyer? They are just so expensive. Even if you have a good settlement, if you can't afford a lawyer to enforce it what is it worth? Asking on behalf of a friend?

Any ideas on how to go about getting the other party to stick to it?

Well the mediator is a lawyer as far as I know but she tries to reach the agreement for both parties.

 

Myles Mayhew went to her and seems to have gotten out OK.

[New Landy new life]

Totally unreasonable. For her to expect you to look after her lifestyle post divorce AND after she initiated the process is unfair in anyone's book.

However, it seems this may not be the first speed bump or pothole she has put on your road.  It looks like she is a serial spender, and maybe she has had enough of explaining/justifying her "sickness" ie living beyond your means, and is now looking for a legal and guilt free way to fleece you.

Maybe walking away (after giving her a lump sum of your pension and savings) may be the best financial decision you can make.

 

Best of luck.

It's going to be a learning curve for me but I just hope the mediator is experienced enough to guide us both through the process so that it is a fair settlement for all

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Well the mediator is a lawyer as far as I know but she tries to reach the agreement for both parties.

 

Myles Mayhew went to her and seems to have gotten out OK.

Correct.

 

From my reading of your position (in my uneducated opinion) your OH will have an accrual claim against you. You probably won't need to pay maintenance (alimony) to her as she is a working woman. You will have to pay maintenance for your kids until they finish schooling.

 

I may be wrong, though.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Myles Mayhew

[GrahamS2]

It's going to be a learning curve for me but I just hope the mediator is experienced enough to guide us both through the process so that it is a fair settlement for all

The mediator will explain to her that she has no legal recourse for you to "maintain her lifestyle".  If she wants to live alone then she will need to foot the bill for that lifestyle...

[Paul Ruinaard]

Sorry mate:

 

It gets a bit bumpy when the parties realize that their previously quite acceptable standard of living and top notch lifestyle is about to get quite a lot worse, especially if the woman is earning significantly less than the man and he was covering the costs of their lifestyle. Those things which were a run of the mill and easily accessible will no longer be. That normally is a bit of a shock if the money has always been there in the past.

 

Fact: Divorces destroy your wealth and will probably set you back 5 to 10 years. Read it and weep and then get on with it. Nothing you can do about it.

 

And if she is the lesser wage earner chances are this will happen and it's going to be a large shock which will make her very bitter and probably even more angry at you. 

 

Parts of my story:

 

My ex couldn't even open a bank account or get credit anywhere or a cell phone contract as she had no credit record she was under my credit ratings and joint accounts. She was pretty pissed off and came back to negotiate more as she blamed me not the banks. I was the evil villain who basically gave her carte blanche to spend on my credit and when she was no longer allowed to i was all of a sudden now nasty. She never anticipated this and it was a rude surprise. It wasn't part of her plan. I had to provide computers and internet access so she could search for a job and also get her a phone. 

 

And yes in case you are wondering i would say 95% certain that you your wife has thought about this all and prepared or had a plan which she is executing and you are just finding out about, so she is a couple of steps ahead of you until you decide to start thinking about what you want and what to do. I would say that with hindsight, you realize woman are much more attuned.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you said this came out of the blue?

 

But if you chatted to your ex's friends you will find she probably talked to them about it and had planned it in advance.

 

Get over it again - women are different to men. They plan things in advance. I was shocked to find that she had spoken to our lawyer 6 months before - he said he was expecting me as she had been there 6 months before.

 

There are many of these you will find.

 

My attitude to stuff that wasn't part of our marriage was - you chose to leave - not my circus and not my monkeys.

 

You have no legal responsibility to maintain her lifestyle from what i can remember. You may have to pay some rehabilitative maintenance for a period as a gesture to allow her to start up but after a given time frame you stop. I had to supply a laptop and a phone and an internet connection so she could get a job.

 

Mine was 4 months. Every month paying that money burned my arse like hot coals. I had to pay for her and her boyfriend to swan about on holiday and use may hard earned money to pay for them setting up a love nest. She phoned me to thank me for something i had paid for and i completely lost the plot. I think that was the point it really became very final. You will have something that happens like that where you decide finally that you want to now get out as fast as possible.

 

Oh and BTW whilst scaring you (and this wasn't the worst i heard of at all) - i had to pay to transfer her half of my new house we had just built and moved in to, back in to my name. The only reason I originally put it in joint names was because she always used to complain that she had contributed but had no title - so i relented and we jointly built a new dream house (sold the old one) which was going to be the future home of our kids as she  she was getting the IVF treatment for (third round ended in November - she left in January)  R40k a pop for IVF at that stage and R 230k cash to get my house back in to my name.

 

These were over and above the divorce settlements (which was decided to be the proceeds for the old house) we sold to build the new house.

 

So i went from moving in to the new house with my wife and planning a family to having no wife, no kids and double the bond i expected.

 

From having an almost paid for  dream house to a big bond and  a large house with just me living in it.

 

And she had the cash from my old property and was living with the new boyfriend using my rehabilitative maintenance to set up home with him as he had dumped his wife and kids and had nothing.  

 

WRT you: Especially if she has a job and can provide for herself, its unlikely you will have to pay for her.  WRT you children - maintenance is a given until they become of age.

 

BTW: When this dawns on her is often when the attempt to reconcile begins.

 

This isn't a one day game and there will be many bumps along the way. Mentally steel yourself for a couple of months of pretty nasty comms between the two of you as this al starts to unwind and the consequences of your divorce become clear.

 

Agree what is fair and try and avoid lawyering up whenever possible. IMO: Be prepared to go a bit deeper and offer to pay a bit more in a lump sum (if you can) to ensure that you get out as clean as possible. 

 

What i mean is give some ground now to get something you know she will want or need, be it a car etc you need to buy. That will take 3 years to pay off etc then you are done. Its pretty nasty medicine, divorce settlements. Rather take a big dose and get well soon than small doses and let the poison linger

 

 

[Duane_Bosch]

 

Fact: Divorces destroy your wealth and will probably set you back 5 to 10 years. Read it and weep and then get on with it. Nothing you can do about it.

 

Indeed. Luckily we don't have any kids and she's a good earner so there wasn't any of that "maintain my lifestyle" bull. I also suspected that she was squirreling away money for a good while planning for the separation. Even tho I initiated it. Long story about a taxi strike, getting a dog to the vet for her anal glands and a broken window from a slammed door. The proverbial straw that broke the camels back. And all that. We both knew it was done at that point anyway tho so no hard feelings. We still chat from time to time and I still see her family.

 

I guess when I begged her to come to anywhere in Europe and a week in France with me and she refused and went with her mate to Vegas instead It should have dawned on me at that point. hahaha.

 

As far as lifestyle downgrades go I've gone from a 4 bedroom house with a bar with a pool table, swimming pool and a Jacuzzi to a 2 bedroom flat.

 

Having said that I've never been happier with a home. It's my total man sanctuary. It has the most amazing views, some of my old bike frames on the wall and loads of my travel pics plus these awesome hanging chairs. I hate gardening so it's no loss and my bird and I AirBnb it out to pay for our Euro trips

 

Silver linings and all that.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Duane_Bosch

[Paul Ruinaard]

Indeed. Luckily we don't have any kids and she's a good earner so there wasn't any of that "maintain my lifestyle" bull. I also suspected that she was squirreling away money for a good while planning for the separation. Even tho I initiated it. Long story about a taxi strike, getting a dog to the vet for her anal glands and a broken window from a slammed door. The proverbial straw that broke the camels back. And all that. We both knew it was done at that point anyway tho so no hard feelings. We still chat from time to time and I still see her family.

 

I guess when I begged her to come to anywhere in Europe and a week in France with me and she refused and went with her mate to Vegas instead It should have dawned on me at that point. hahaha.

 

As far as lifestyle downgrades go I've gone from a 4 bedroom house with a bar with a pool table, swimming pool and a Jacuzzi to a 2 bedroom flat.

 

Having said that I've never been happier with a home. It's my total man sanctuary. It has the most amazing views, some of my old bike frames on the wall and loads of my travel pics plus these awesome hanging chairs. I hate gardening so it's no loss and my bird and I AirBnb it out to pay for our Euro trips

 

Silver linings and all that.

Yep totally agreed.

 

For me it was so long ago that as i typed that stuff out it seemed almost like another lifetime and it was so far removed from where i am now that it is just information about my past. No longer hurtful or really anything special.

[Mojoman]

Yeah, they certainly make plans alright... Mine waited till I was out on a long ride then phoned and said her uncle had had a heart attack and she was rushing through to the hospital... I said hang on, I can gap it back in 30 minutes and I will drive her through....she said not to worry., have a good ride etc...I cranked it anyway...just in time to see her leave with most of her stuff that would fit in the car...when I saw she had her office gear and printers etc I just knew something was up! The old gut feel!

She also said in a letter she had stopped being in love with me some years earlier....pity she didn't open her mouth before I borrowed money and we bought a house together and accrued 6 dogs!! 

Then a year or so ago I bumped into someone who said they had seen my ex at a mall having what looked like a pretty intimate dinner with someone while we were still together...

Maybe its true...maybe not but 3 years later I don't care anyway!! As Duane said....silver linings...they just take a bit of time to see...

 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

How'd it go, Landy?

[Honkdonk]

Mine decided that she was going to stay put in the big fancy 1,7ha plot that now has a small zoo and costs and arm and a leg. There is NO down scaling as far as she is concerned.

 

I see a rude awakening coming shortly

[IceCreamMan]

So far as maintaining an ex spouse goes, in certain cases it does happen. Normally not indefinite but each case has its own facts.

 

Don’t automatically assume that it does not exist.

[New Landy new life]

How'd it go, Landy?

 

 

So we had a pretty peacefull mediation where Ashley explained the process and we pretty much agreed to doing it without much fighting.

She was a little surprised I offered to give my wife her car that I bought her and not dispute that at all. - I feel sorry for her and don't want to be spitefull.

Pension unfortunatley will be pretty much carved up as a percentage of salary and starting off estate values in our ANC contract but she says that is goverened by law and nothing can be changed by that.  Only the maintenace may get ugly as I explained that my wife had chosen how much she spends on my son's Sport and that is a huge figure and is why we both have no money to our names - I only found out this value a few days ago.  This is one of the reason's we are getting divorced in the first place as I dissagreed about 10 years ago as to how much time they were spending in his sport as we could not afford it.

 

She has also rung up a big debt again on some loan shark  account!

 

Anyway, I think there may be some quarrels to come when Ashley does her calculations.

 

Night folks

Edited January 17, 2018 by NoMore Landy

[IceCreamMan]

So we had a pretty peacefull mediation where Ashley explained the process and we pretty much agreed to doing it without much fighting.

She was a little surprised I offered to give my wife her car that I bought her and not dispute that at all. - I feel sorry for her and don't want to be spitefull.

Pension unfortunatley will be pretty much carved up as a percentage of salary and starting off estate values in our ANC contract but she says that is goverened by law and nothing can be changed by that.  Only the maintenace may get ugly as I explained that my wife had chosen how much she spends on my son's Sport and that is a huge figure and is why we both have no money to our names - I only found out this value a few days ago.  This is one of the reason's we are getting divorced in the first place as I dissagreed about 10 years ago as to how much time they were spending in his sport as we could not afford it.

 

She has also rung up a big debt again on some loan shark  account!

 

Anyway, I think there may be some quarrels to come when Ashley does her calculations.

 

Night folks

Good luck sir.

[Paddaman]

So we had a pretty peacefull mediation where Ashley explained the process and we pretty much agreed to doing it without much fighting.

She was a little surprised I offered to give my wife her car that I bought her and not dispute that at all. - I feel sorry for her and don't want to be spitefull.

Pension unfortunatley will be pretty much carved up as a percentage of salary and starting off estate values in our ANC contract but she says that is goverened by law and nothing can be changed by that.  Only the maintenace may get ugly as I explained that my wife had chosen how much she spends on my son's Sport and that is a huge figure and is why we both have no money to our names - I only found out this value a few days ago.  This is one of the reason's we are getting divorced in the first place as I dissagreed about 10 years ago as to how much time they were spending in his sport as we could not afford it.

 

She has also rung up a big debt again on some loan shark  account!

 

Anyway, I think there may be some quarrels to come when Ashley does her calculations.

 

Night folks

Bingo......

[Let's Ride]

Question. We are married out of community of property with accrual but the pension funds are considered separate if it hits the fan.

 

I work for myself and have paid for the house with all my investments and monthly income. House is in both of our names as that's what the wife wanted even though I paid for it... I consider the house part of my retirement as well as my business but if we get divorced she gets half of both and I get none of her pension fund.

 

I'm also worried as the investments I had before we got married were excluded and if I didn't use that money for the house they would be growing right now and I would be entitled to the interest. The house grows in value but if that's split half half then she benefits.

 

How easy is it to get our contracts re done as I don't like the way it's structured right now.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Let's Ride

[Let's Ride]

Still young and hopefully it never happens but better to safeguard myself now for just incase.