All things Team Qhubeka NextHash

[TNT1]

16 hours ago, YaseenEnos said:

I may be completely wrong (I have done no research on this) but the sponsors below don’t come across as multi-national conglomerates.

 

Bora is a company that manufactures luxury German extractor fans

Hansgrohe is the brand that you should turn to if you want a luxury German showerhead

Deceuninck is a PVC window frame manufacturer

QuickStep makes laminate flooring

Intermarché, a French supermarket chain.

Gobert Matériaux is a Belgian building materials supplier

Soudal is an adhesives manufacturer.

Jumbo is the second-largest Dutch supermarket chain

Visma is a Norwegian software company

Segafredo is a coffee company from Italy

 

I am looking at the list and thinking, we have some big companies in SA that’s already involved in cycling through event sponsorhip. Why not sponsor Africa’s only WT team….

 

 

Multi national? I likewise have anecdotal references, but I have Soudal adhesives and other products in my garage right now. I buy Jumbo products at a speciality store or online, several south african flooring companies will use Quickstep floors if you ask them to do the floors in your house, Segafredo is ubiquitous in the fancy pants cyclist meets coffee world, isn't it? Along the highway by the airport there's a bathroom accessories warehouse, and along with billboards for Tivoli, there's a Hansgrohe one. 

 

I my experience, the world is a hang of a lot smaller than you seem to think.

Edited October 26, 2021 by TNT1

[TNT1]

1 hour ago, J Wakefield said:

Local South African team being formed 

That's a pretty sad fall back to earth.

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, TNT1 said:

That's a pretty sad fall back to earth.

Yeah and he's a such a good bloke. The fall of Qhubeka nexthash will impact all the African riders. I really don't know how Doug and his management team got this so wrong, but the blame rests with them ultimately. This team was on the ropes before Covid hit. Riders joining the team seem to endure a drop off in performance, then leave nd join other teams only to find form again. That's pretty damning evidence even if anecdotal.

Where to from here for Dougie? I have a lot of empathy for his plight. This team is his dream and he's had it on life support for ages but at some point you have to step away and allow better people to take it to the next level, stay on board and learn.

[Eldron]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Yeah and he's a such a good bloke. The fall of Qhubeka nexthash will impact all the African riders. I really don't know how Doug and his management team got this so wrong, but the blame rests with them ultimately. This team was on the ropes before Covid hit. Riders joining the team seem to endure a drop off in performance, then leave nd join other teams only to find form again. That's pretty damning evidence even if anecdotal.

Where to from here for Dougie? I have a lot of empathy for his plight. This team is his dream and he's had it on life support for ages but at some point you have to step away and allow better people to take it to the next level, stay on board and learn.

That is where they started so no shame in dropping down, rebuilding and getting back to the top.

The Qhubeka dream is really popular over here. I have the logo on some of my products and it is well recognized. Doug should be able to attract sponsors again....

 

Edit: They need to do something about management though.  It feels like there is something rotten in the team. Many, many riders have underperformed badly at Qhubeka in the last few years.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Eldron

[DieselnDust]

4 minutes ago, Eldron said:

That is where they started so no shame in dropping down, rebuilding and getting back to the top.

The Qhubeka dream is really popular over here. I have the logo on some of my products and it is well recognized. Doug should be able to attract sponsors again....

 

Edit: They need to do something about management though.  It feels like there is something rotten in the team. Many, many riders have underperformed badly at Qhubeka in the last few years.

the ideal of Qhubeka is great and should be supported. But you can only pluck money from heart strings for so long. At some point you have to deliver the right sized bibs...

[Eldron]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

the ideal of Qhubeka is great and should be supported. But you can only pluck money from heart strings for so long. At some point you have to deliver the right sized bibs...

Depends on the sponsor. If they're in it to add the feels/fuzziness to their brand then the objective is to spread the words and bikes not win the TdF.

[DieselnDust]

40 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Depends on the sponsor. If they're in it to add the feels/fuzziness to their brand then the objective is to spread the words and bikes not win the TdF.

Which is basically what Assos has been doing but even they can't take the pain anylonger. There still has to be some form of return on the investment they're making that translates into cash. Its all well and good talking about the touchy feely stuff and winning hearts but results have to come. Just apply SA politics to the template and its easier to understand why touchy feely only goes so far and not all the way to the line.

Edited October 26, 2021 by DieselnDust

[DieselnDust]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-qhubeka-development-squad-will-continue-in-2022/
 

some positive news for the development riders. World tour team has a deadline in 2 weeks

[Sid the Sloth]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:20 AM, J Wakefield said:

Local South African team being formed 

Where does one apply... For interest sake ????

[Eldron]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/top-10-mens-transfer-successes-of-2021/

3 of the 10 successes were from NTT to other teams - I would love to know what is/was wrong with NTT management/training/control that they turn race horses into donkeys or can't/don't/won't develop talent....

[stringbean]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:57 AM, Eldron said:

Depends on the sponsor. If they're in it to add the feels/fuzziness to their brand then the objective is to spread the words and bikes not win the TdF.

Any sponsors willing to pay 10-50 m euros to add feel or fuzziness to their brand will be closing there doors soon. Corporates are retrenching and there is no money for crap like that.Sorry if I open a can of worms but Qhubeka has done little for SA riders imo.Yes some have been given a short term job(some because they deserve and some out of pity)but wonder how many of those riders will make it into another WT team.

Even if they are going continental not sure if they have the riders to progress further again.Rumours that some continental riders don’t even get paid a salary.Perhaps John can confirm this?

Edited November 1, 2021 by stringbean

[Eldron]

12 minutes ago, stringbean said:

Any sponsors willing to pay 10-50 m euros to add feel or fuzziness to their brand will be closing there doors soon. Corporates are retrenching and there is no money for crap like that.Sorry if I open a can of worms but Qhubeka has done little for SA riders imo.Yes some have been given a short term job(some because they deserve and some out of pity)but wonder how many of those riders will make it into another WT team.

Even if they are going continental not sure if they have the riders to progress further again.Rumours that some continental riders don’t even get paid a salary.Perhaps John can confirm this?

That is a really South African/myopic view of the world.

Many brands are looking to present themselves as greener/more caring/socially aware etc and spend many millions on achieving exactly that.

Winning ISN'T everything. 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Eldron said:

That is a really South African/myopic view of the world.

Many brands are looking to present themselves as greener/more caring/socially aware etc and spend many millions on achieving exactly that.

Winning ISN'T everything. 

Yes I agree with you but this is exactly one of the reasons why Dougie's team continually finds itself in  this spiral of acquiring the next social upliftment scheme to showcase. There's no money in that. So unless there's a billionaire somewhere who don't consider the EURO50Million (to run a team successfully)  to be of great value to their life other than a tax write off or marketing expense, shareholder driven companies will be the de facto requirement to ensure the teams success. While socialism keeps this team afloat it will never succeed. There's just isn't enough incentive to do so.

Donors don't need a cycling team to donate bikes to underprivileged kids in the rural townships. Anyone can do that, so the team has to exist for a higher ideal (Its mission statement) but it also cannot fail (as it has been) in this mission. The problems are multiple and doesn't get solved by a sponsor.

Edited November 1, 2021 by DieselnDust
speeeelllinnggg

[Eldron]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

Yes I agree with you but this is exactly one of the reasons why Dougies team continually finds itself in  this spiral of acquiring the next social upliftment scheme to showcase. There's no money in that. So unless there's a billionaire somewhere who don't consider the EURO50Million (to run a team successfully)  to be of great value to their life other than a tax write off or marketing expense, shareholder driven companies will be the defacto requirement to ensure the trams success. While socialism keeps this team afloat it will never succeed. There's just isn't enough incentive to do so.

Donors don't need a cycling team to donate bikes to underprivileged kids in the rural townships. Anyone can do that, so the team has to exist for a higher ideal (Its mission statement) but it also cannot fail (as it has been) in this mission. The problems are multiple and doesn't get solved by a sponsor.

Socialism? Not a single sponsor of theirs has been a government owned company as far as I know....MTN, Didata/NTT, Deloitte, ASSOS, Nexthash are all privately owned. Nederberg, Mercedes, Burberry, Hunt too....

They have only ever showcased one upliftment scheme: Qhubeka.

 

[DieselnDust]

38 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Socialism? Not a single sponsor of theirs has been a government owned company as far as I know....MTN, Didata/NTT, Deloitte, ASSOS, Nexthash are all privately owned. Nederberg, Mercedes, Burberry, Hunt too....

They have only ever showcased one upliftment scheme: Qhubeka.

 

it was tongue in cheek. 

All the companies you list are in it for the do good feel good factor. They partner with the team for that higher ideal. If this higher purpose was so important why are those sponsors not trumping up more cash to keep the team afloat?

Likely because the social upliftment in Africa has a very small budget compared to the core business of producing motor cars (Mercedes F1 team does a better job of delivering shareholder value and showcasing core business of Mercedes). Assos has only been on board for the last 3 seasons, before then the kit was made by Bioracer and Oakley was the brand name showcased. ASSOS hasn't been on board long enough to be gatvol yet and as long as they're getting paid perhaps they don't care about success but I'd be surprised that such a high performance brand of race horse pedigree would want to adorn donkeys for much longer. However ASSOS sponsors the Swiss and USA national teams and achieve great success there. They don't really need win on every shoulder since they are already perceived to be the industry leader and therefore a bit of altruism goes someway to winning hearts and minds....but they're getting paid. (in one of Nicks interviews he mentions the riders receive a fixed number of kit per year gratis, the rest is paid for)

So all the "socialist" ideals of those companies is offset by other sponsorships that deliver real shareholder value, hence the team is never in a good financial position. One can't live off the scraps forever.

Qhubeka is the charity but it probably does a lot better without the team connection. 

Without results, the World Tour team will never attract sponsors of substance. Nexthash hasn't worked out. I'm not sure if they've actually paid anything near what they promised. So how an Douglas expect the survive? The World tour is not about charity. Its the pinnacle of road cycling, the Formula 1 of the cycling world, where similarly those teams that don't perform continuously struggle to find sponsors, attract the engineers for any length of time other than as a stepping stone.

How is Dougie to continually find altruistic benefactors who like losing image, reputation and money? Even the most altruistic benefactor wants a great result once in a while to stroke the ego. They didn't get rich on hand outs but rather through taking risks. Why would they associate with a team that continually snatches defeat from victory? Maybe he needs to knock on the door of Aliko Dangote... that might stoke some fire under the arse and promote some success. Mr. Dangote is the wealthiest man in Africa, nett worth circa $13Billion US. The other African sponsors grew tired of promises and no delivery. Maybe the team is just damaged goods now? Too many bridges burned. There's enough wealthy people out there, but I can assure you, every one of them will want success. None will want to back a loser as that is a direct reflection on them. That is how the world works.

Edited November 1, 2021 by DieselnDust

[Eldron]

5 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

it was tongue in cheek. 

All the companies you list are in it for the do good feel good factor. They partner with the team for that higher ideal. If this higher purpose was so important why are those sponsors not trumping up more cash to keep the team afloat?

Likely because the social upliftment in Africa has a very small budget compared to the core business of producing motor cars (Mercedes F1 team does a better job of delivering shareholder value and showcasing core business of Mercedes). Assos has only been on board for the last 3 seasons, before then the kit was made by Bioracer and Oakley was the brand name showcased. So all the "socialist" ideals of those companies is offset by other sponsorships that deliver real shareholder value, hence the team is never in a good financial position. One can't live off the scraps forever.

Qhubeka is the charity but it probably does a lot better without the team connection. 

Without results, the World Tour team will never attract sponsors of substance. Nexthash hasn't worked out. I'm not sure if they've actually paid anything near what they promised. So how an Douglas expect the survive? The World tour is not about charity. Its the pinnacle of road cycling, the Formula 1 of the cycling world, where similarly those teams that don't perform continuously struggle to find sponsors, attract the engineers for any length of time other than as a stepping stone.

How is Dougie to continually find altruistic benefactors who like losing image, reputation and money? Even the most altruistic benefactor wants a great result once in a while to stroke the ego. They didn't get rich on hand outs but rather through taking risks. Why would they associate with a team that continually snatches defeat from victory? Maybe he needs to knock on the door of Aliko Dangote... that might stoke some fire under the arse and promote some success. Mr. Dangote is the wealthiest man in Africa, nett worth circa $13Billion US. The other African sponsors grew tired of promises and no delivery. Maybe the team is just damaged goods now? Too many bridges burned. There's enough wealthy people out there, but I can assure you, every one of them will want success. None will want to back a loser as that is a direct reflection on them. That is how the world works.

What? The team has been BAD for Qhubeka? Please explain how showcasing the charity globally with famous athletes has been bad for Qhubeka. That makes no sense. Even people here in Copenhagen know what Qhubeka is thanks to the Doug and the team. 

That is how the world works....according to you.

Sponsors want positive exposure (with the positive part becoming more and more important). Qhubeka has "positive" in spades. The exposure is linked to the winning of course but it isn't the only metric. I agree with you that winning would help but it is one of many aspects of sponsorship - not the main one.

There is a reason the top paid riders of 2021 and the world rankings of riders for 2021 looks radically different (hint: Chris tops the tables and he hasn't won anything in a few years).