Hunting - yes or no?

[Odinson]

So its clear many people don't like the so called "vibe" that goes on during hunts. Yes I agree in many cases it is just one big piss-up. BUT there are also many ethical hunters out there, more than the drunks I'd say. But lets not get into the ethics of hunting, that wasn't what the debate was about. The argument from some was that hunting, in whatever form, should be stopped completely.

You can’t exclude ethics from the discussion on the cessation of hunting. It’s a key consideration.

 

I’d like to formulate a solid reply, but am pressed for time.

 

See you chaps later. ✌????

[leeubok]

I shot some birds with the windbuks and .22 on the farm when I was a lightie but I have never hunted because I detest the macho drinking and bravado weekend it typically turns into. So no, I don't hunt.

 

I do see the benefit of hunting for conservation, but I don't see the need to make every game farm a hunting farm.

 

We regularly go to a shareholding Game Farm where 100 properties are spread across the Farm. This farm has now graduated to a Reserve and enjoys the associated benefits and profits without having to hunt a single animal. So I am just saying that there are farming models that are sustainable without hosting hunters.

 

Just a quick wrap-up of the animals that have decent numbers on the farm:

-Sable

-Buffalo

-Rhino

-Giraffe

-Waterbuck

-Impala

-Blue wildebeest

-Leopards

And a whole ecosystem of birds.

Hi Rookie. 

 

Yes there are different models one can follow. Having lots of different stakeholders combined into one property has massive complications in its own. There are very few that work well, Sabi Sand is one I can think of. We have a couple here in KZN, but the land owners don't all see eye to eye so they can't agree on how to manage the place.

 

Also, what is the overall size of this property? If you have a full suite of predators on the property there will most likely not be a need to control herbivore populations. However, unless it is a big system like kruger, you still need to control your lion population. And elephants if they're present

[bikebloke]

industrialised food (meat products production) is far more cruel and F**ked up than hunting .

 

take a battery/feedlot raised and industrial slaughtered animal's stress and fear levels compared to an animal in the wild shot unawares by a hunter.

 

so if you are anti-hunting but eat animal products you are a hypocrite who lets others do your killing for you so your opinion really holds zero weight in this argument.

 

if you are vegan ...sweet   (but still not the only choice)

#freedomtodecide

[Vetplant]

I shot some birds with the windbuks and .22 on the farm when I was a lightie but I have never hunted because I detest the macho drinking and bravado weekend it typically turns into. So no, I don't hunt.

 

I do see the benefit of hunting for conservation, but I don't see the need to make every game farm a hunting farm.

 

We regularly go to a shareholding Game Farm where 100 properties are spread across the Farm. This farm has now graduated to a Reserve and enjoys the associated benefits and profits without having to hunt a single animal. So I am just saying that there are farming models that are sustainable without hosting hunters.

 

Just a quick wrap-up of the animals that have decent numbers on the farm:

-Sable

-Buffalo

-Rhino

-Giraffe

-Waterbuck

-Impala

-Blue wildebeest

-Leopards

And a whole ecosystem of birds.

Sorry, just remembered Kudus and Njalas too...

[leeubok]

You can’t exclude ethics from the discussion on the cessation of hunting. It’s a key consideration.

 

I’d like to formulate a solid reply, but am pressed for time.

 

See you chaps later. ✌

Lekker, looking forward to your reply.

 

The problem is you okes are focusing on the bad examples of hunters. The group of guys that get drunk, shoot from bakkies, wound animals and so on. I look past this at the end result. I have seen too many game farms bulldozed in order to plant agricultural crops. 

[leeubok]

Hi Leeubok

Thanks for your post and information. The issues of conservation and hunting are well understood from my side. I know it’s a topic that will not easily, if ever, be resolved in a way that will keep everyone happy.

 

I’ve never gone hunting, and would only consider it if there were no other options. In this day and age I don’t believe the majority of 1st world citizens need to hunt.

 

My biggest issue is with the human mindset and double standards applied to the rest of nature, whereby “we” think we have the right to do what we like on this planet to every other living specie, except ourselves.

 

I just have one question, which I know will sound ridiculous and be quickly dismissed:

Excluding fueds and war, why don’t we hunt and kill humans as well?

 

The planet is over populated and heading towards a disaster as a result. There are plenty of humans who deserve nothing less, yet they have every right to continue living?

There is no NEED to hunt. Most hunters see it as a way of getting away from it all, relaxation, being one with nature and all that stuff. 

 

As for hunting humans. Yeah, don't we all know a few we'd like to take out hey? I think juju would be high on many people's list! LOL

[Vetplant]

Hi Rookie. 

 

Yes there are different models one can follow. Having lots of different stakeholders combined into one property has massive complications in its own. There are very few that work well, Sabi Sand is one I can think of. We have a couple here in KZN, but the land owners don't all see eye to eye so they can't agree on how to manage the place.

 

Also, what is the overall size of this property? If you have a full suite of predators on the property there will most likely not be a need to control herbivore populations. However, unless it is a big system like kruger, you still need to control your lion population. And elephants if they're present

Yep, many possible operating models, each with it's pro's and con's. I prefer the model where I can view the animals up close and personal and be able to show my 3 year old what a Kudu looks like in the "wild"(or as close to that as we can get in this day and age).

 

I am not saying the hunting models shouldn't exist, instead I am saying that the one I prefer cannot exist without those hunting farms because the excess animals get caught and shipped off to those hunting farms for a profit.

 

I am just saying the hunting farms probably won't see a direct sent of spend from my pocket. But you guys are welcome to go hunt, I won't shame you on Insta...   

[leeubok]

Yep, many possible operating models, each with it's pro's and con's. I prefer the model where I can view the animals up close and personal and be able to show my 3 year old what a Kudu looks like in the "wild"(or as close to that as we can get in this day and age).

 

I am not saying the hunting models shouldn't exist, instead I am saying that the one I prefer cannot exist without those hunting farms because the excess animals get caught and shipped off to those hunting farms for a profit.

 

I am just saying the hunting farms probably won't see a direct sent of spend from my pocket. But you guys are welcome to go hunt, I won't shame you on Insta...   

Selling game live is one way of controlling your populations. But my guess is that its less profitable than hunting. You get less for a live animal than you'd get for someone hunting that same animal. Plus you're paying capture costs etc.. But if you can do it, great. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by leeubok

[mon-goose]

don't shoot what you won't eat

 

trophy hunting is ***

don't hunt anything that is on the brink of extinction.

 

springbok we have plenty of. Lion, elephant etc maybe not in some places. I think trophy unting is a waste of an animal but I have not problem with hunting itself.

 

And whatever you, please kill quickly and don't let the animal suffer

[Mousea]

Yes.

Read this "Poaches in the Hills"

 

This is the story of my Great Uncle from conservation " Natal Parks Board" to one of South Africas first Professional Hunters and a founder member of "Game Rangers association of Africa"

Without Professional hunters our Wildlife in this country would be doomed

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mousea

[Grease_Monkey]

I just have one question, which I know will sound ridiculous and be quickly dismissed:

Excluding fueds and war, why don’t we hunt and kill humans as well?

 

The planet is over populated and heading towards a disaster as a result. There are plenty of humans who deserve nothing less, yet they have every right to continue living?

To answer that question I would have to get into my faith, which this forum is not the right place for, but in very simple terms - a human does not equal an animal.

 

Humans have souls, animals do not.

 

I'm not keen on getting into a debate about that, but the reason I did reply with the above is maybe just to give insight into what I believe... not asking anyone to agree with me.

 

But, and this is the big BUT - I do not think that we as humans have the right to be cruel to animals at all. Next to impossible to always stay on the right side of that line when buying meat from stores, easy to stay on the right side of it when hunting.

[Sepia]

I've got no problem in hunting for food, or culling.

 

Trofee hunting, however, is something totally different. It is catered exclusively for someone's ego - and while it can benefit surrounding communities, it's too open for abuse. 

Trophy hunting (NOT CANNED!!!) creates new blood in the heard.  Stronger breeding characteristics and this you are able to get paid to do.

Another yes from me.

(I think leeubok explained it better)

[leeubok]

don't hunt anything that is on the brink of extinction.

 

springbok we have plenty of. Lion, elephant etc maybe not in some places. I think trophy unting is a waste of an animal but I have not problem with hunting itself.

 

And whatever you, please kill quickly and don't let the animal suffer

 

Lions and elephants need to be controlled, even more so than herbivore populations. Especially on smaller farms. But hunting isn't a method of controlling your population. You can however hunt a bull elephant or male lion, and use that money to translocate or contracept or whatever the rest of the population. 

[Escapee..]

I just dont get the thrill of it.

 

Be it a weekend piss up with the boys shooting from the back of the bakkie or the more ethical "hunters".

 

You are shooting an animal with a rifle and it has zero chance of survival.

How is that fun/entertaining/high five worthy?

[Chris_]

To answer that question I would have to get into my faith, which this forum is not the right place for, but in very simple terms - a human does not equal an animal.

 

Humans have souls, animals do not.

 

I'm not keen on getting into a debate about that, but the reason I did reply with the above is maybe just to give insight into what I believe... not asking anyone to agree with me.

 

But, and this is the big BUT - I do not think that we as humans have the right to be cruel to animals at all. Next to impossible to always stay on the right side of that line when buying meat from stores, easy to stay on the right side of it when hunting.

 

I'm not following. Do you buy meat from the shops?

 

I think specifically growing animals as food may be the cruelest treatment possible. 

[G.S.W]

To answer that question I would have to get into my faith, which this forum is not the right place for, but in very simple terms - a human does not equal an animal.

 

Humans have souls, animals do not.

 

I'm not keen on getting into a debate about that, but the reason I did reply with the above is maybe just to give insight into what I believe... not asking anyone to agree with me.

 

But, and this is the big BUT - I do not think that we as humans have the right to be cruel to animals at all. Next to impossible to always stay on the right side of that line when buying meat from stores, easy to stay on the right side of it when hunting.

Humans have souls, animals do not. - Says who?

​Not according to some religious beliefs!