Hunting - yes or no?

[G.S.W]

Why? At the end of the day that trophy hunter directly pays for the continued existence of biodiversity on that farm 

Trophy hunters take the best possible animal!

How does this not weaken the species?

[Longbarn Killer]

I cannot understand the thrill or enjoyment of inflicting pain on another living creature. Those last few minutes of that animal's life is one of extreme pain and suffering and fear. 

 

Why do that to a living creature. None of those guys with their guns would want it to happen to them, so why do that to something else.

[DJR]

I no longer get involved in debates for or against because I have come to terms with my own ethics and morality and am happy to let others do and believe as they choose, as long as it respects mine and allow me the freedom to live my way, of course, without harming theirs.

 

But I will tell you just one of the things that we did:

 

We took a piece of land (with help of a few friends) that was strictly a sheep and angora farm. The black backed jackal and lynx were just about exterminated. Small game like duiker and steenbok were very scarce. Hares and tortoise were scarce. We renovated a dilapidated old house, totally off the grid, and we stocked Springbok and Gemsbok. It was without these for over a 100 years.

 

The vegetation slowly recovered. It is now 15 years later and we regularly see jackal, lynx and even recently found brown hyeina spoor. Duiker and steenbok are plentiful. Vaal rhebok and klipspringer re-appeared from somewhere. The place withstand droughts much better than in the past. We have 1 red data plant on our land, many other scarce succulents are now protected there. Most of this happened without us doing anything, other than to allow a small patch of land to contribute to a larger biodiversity.

 

What pays for all this? Sprinkbok, Gemsbok and the peace you can find there!  

[Longbarn Killer]

To answer that question I would have to get into my faith, which this forum is not the right place for, but in very simple terms - a human does not equal an animal.

 

Humans have souls, animals do not.

 

I'm not keen on getting into a debate about that, but the reason I did reply with the above is maybe just to give insight into what I believe... not asking anyone to agree with me.

 

But, and this is the big BUT - I do not think that we as humans have the right to be cruel to animals at all. Next to impossible to always stay on the right side of that line when buying meat from stores, easy to stay on the right side of it when hunting.

I disagree

 

I'm not quite sure what is meant or defined as a soul.

 

I have a dog.

 

When I get home from work, she goes crazy when seeing me.......that is the emotion of happiness

 

When I get her lead to go for a walk. She jumps up and down and tail goes wild.......that is the emotion of excitment.

 

When I switch on the vacuum cleaner, she runs out of the house with her tail between her legs.........that is the emotion of fear (still don't know why she is scared of it).

 

If animals have emotions, they must have something that can be called a soul or whatever is defined as a soul.

 

Whether they have a soul or not, the fact that they experience emotions tells me they are more intelligent than we think.

[Longbarn Killer]

I'm not following. Do you buy meat from the shops?

 

I think specifically growing animals as food may be the cruelest treatment possible. 

We are talking about Hunting, the gratuitous killing of animals.

 

Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat. At least the cows and sheep are killed humanely.

 

Shooting an animal for sport is not humane. Very little hunts take place for the purpose of eating. They take place for sport or gees or whatever you want to call it. The food part is just a by product of their fun weekend away.

[bikebloke]

We are talking about Hunting, the gratuitous killing of animals.

 

Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat. At least the cows and sheep are killed humanely.

 

Shooting an animal for sport is not humane. Very little hunts take place for the purpose of eating. They take place for sport or gees or whatever you want to call it. The food part is just a by product of their fun weekend away.

 

if you ever toured a slaughter facility you wouldnt make that statement - but as you obviously buy your meat in plastic so you believe whatever makes you feel better about it

[leeubok]

Trophy hunters take the best possible animal!

How does this not weaken the species?

More often than not that animal will only reach "trophy" status quite late in life. By that stage he has already passed on his genes. But yes there is a risk of skewing population dynamics if you over-do trophy hunting. 

[leeubok]

if you ever toured a slaughter facility you wouldnt make that statement - but as you obviously buy your meat in plastic so you believe whatever makes you feel better about it

 

Yup, I'd suggest Longbarn go and visit an abattoir, then decide whether it is more humane than killing an animal with one shot with a rifle. 

[leeubok]

I no longer get involved in debates for or against because I have come to terms with my own ethics and morality and am happy to let others do and believe as they choose, as long as it respects mine and allow me the freedom to live my way, of course, without harming theirs.

 

But I will tell you just one of the things that we did:

 

We took a piece of land (with help of a few friends) that was strictly a sheep and angora farm. The black backed jackal and lynx were just about exterminated. Small game like duiker and steenbok were very scarce. Hares and tortoise were scarce. We renovated a dilapidated old house, totally off the grid, and we stocked Springbok and Gemsbok. It was without these for over a 100 years.

 

The vegetation slowly recovered. It is now 15 years later and we regularly see jackal, lynx and even recently found brown hyeina spoor. Duiker and steenbok are plentiful. Vaal rhebok and klipspringer re-appeared from somewhere. The place withstand droughts much better than in the past. We have 1 red data plant on our land, many other scarce succulents are now protected there. Most of this happened without us doing anything, other than to allow a small patch of land to contribute to a larger biodiversity.

 

What pays for all this? Sprinkbok, Gemsbok and the peace you can find there!  

That's very cool DJR. But I'm confused, do you allow hunting of the springbok and gemsbok or not? Also, is this property fenced or not? 

[leeubok]

We are talking about Hunting, the gratuitous killing of animals.

 

Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat. At least the cows and sheep are killed humanely.

 

Shooting an animal for sport is not humane. Very little hunts take place for the purpose of eating. They take place for sport or gees or whatever you want to call it. The food part is just a by product of their fun weekend away.

Quite ironic that your name is Longbarn KILLER, isn't it? LOL, just pulling your leg

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

You are kidding right? 

not the thread for it, copperhead. 

[Grease_Monkey]

I'm not following. Do you buy meat from the shops?

 

I think specifically growing animals as food may be the cruelest treatment possible.

I do buy meat from shops - I'm just mentioning that it is very hard to control how the animal was killed when you do. Not taking any moral high ground here... I hunt and I buy meat from shops. In a perfect world I would love to know that every animal I consume has been killed quickly and without pain - but that's next to impossible.

[Chris_]

We are talking about Hunting, the gratuitous killing of animals.

 

Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat. At least the cows and sheep are killed humanely.

 

Shooting an animal for sport is not humane. Very little hunts take place for the purpose of eating. They take place for sport or gees or whatever you want to call it. The food part is just a by product of their fun weekend away.

 

Firstly - 'Every animal species needs to eat, even humans, so something has to die for us to eat'  This is 100% incorrect. You do not need to kill animals to live.

 

Secondly, why do you think that when a hunter kills an animal is inhumane, but boiling a chicken alive, or gutting a pig hung by its leg while alive IS humane? 

 

You just stated your dog has feelings and emotions. Sorry friend but your dog is exactly the same as the cows, sheep, goats and what ever else we hunt or chop up every day. THEY ALL FEEL.

[Grease_Monkey]

I disagree

 

I'm not quite sure what is meant or defined as a soul.

 

I have a dog.

 

When I get home from work, she goes crazy when seeing me.......that is the emotion of happiness

 

When I get her lead to go for a walk. She jumps up and down and tail goes wild.......that is the emotion of excitment.

 

When I switch on the vacuum cleaner, she runs out of the house with her tail between her legs.........that is the emotion of fear (still don't know why she is scared of it).

 

If animals have emotions, they must have something that can be called a soul or whatever is defined as a soul.

 

Whether they have a soul or not, the fact that they experience emotions tells me they are more intelligent than we think.

I get what you're saying, and I may have phrased my post wrong.

 

I was replying to why I believe it is okay to kill/hunt/eat animals but not humans.

 

I don't believe animals and humans are equal. As much as I love my dog who I spend every waking hour of the day with and who sleeps on the couch with next to me when I watch TV, keeps me company all day, etc etc, I do not believe his life is in any way or form equal to any humam life.

 

That is all... let's not get off topic completely.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Grease_Monkey

[Grease_Monkey]

You are kidding right?

They may (depends on how you define soul), but no I am not kidding when I say I don't think human soul/life/being is not the same as an animal soul/life/being. Check the context in which I was answering. (Why is it okay to hunt animals and not humans....)

[lechatnoir]

Sport-hunting where one kills a defenseless beast in an unsporting manner to make yourself feel good is reprehensible to me.

 

But if you go and kill a lion with a spear and mount it on your wall, then you get massive respect from me.

 

But shot at 100's of metres with a high-powered rifle? yeah.. well done you, you manly man... your actions speak louder than your words in my view.

 

Do you want sport? give the animal a chance you manly man cowardly coward

 

and before you ask 'do you eat meat?', let me say yes, I do. Do I know how that meat gets to me? Yes, I do, and I accept full responsibility for that, which is why I choose the most ethical option, and yes, I know that's a grey area - but the 'killing for pleasure' is morally bankrupt, again, in my view.