Suikerbossie traffic lights & general road safety

[DJR]

There is a road. It's tiny and looks more like a driveway and super easy to miss but it is there.

I have seen cyclists look across to the right where the big visible road joins and then simply run the red light if there is no car coming from the right.......what they DON"T see or even look at, is the little road joining from the left!

[Pure Savage]

Speed limit is only a maximum. Are you not expected to drive at a speed that is safe according to the conditions and the vehicle that you are in? So if you can’t stop quick enough at sixty if the light changes, then by law you should be going slower??

 

Maybe the lights should allow for a longer Orange. They are probably set for a flat surface and nobody has applied their mind to setting them up. In a normal situation a car and a bike will brake from their normal speed at around the same time in a 60 zone, car at 60 and bike at 32ish. The light has not been set up to accommodate that cyclists may be approaching at more than 30km/h.

 

its like making the orange light on a 80km/k zone the same as a 60km/h zone, you will have cars sailing though. (Thats why the orange is longer on the R44)

[Headshot]

Where is the PPA in this. The idea of a longer orange light time is a good one.

[tubed]

The other lights at speed which quite a few cyclists deem optional are the ones at the Llandudno exit.

 

Especially bad are the DC training teams (thankfully over now), if the first or second rider leading the group squeezes the orange, the rest seem to think its ok to run the red rather than lose their group.

 

That's a T-bone for sure.

 

Just don't do it.

[Shebeen]

so to Cap and Geronimo, I agree with you on all accounts.  But there is a reason why there is a faction in engineering called Transportation Engineering.  People are inherently stupid in general and there are general guidelines set forth for road users to make informed decisions when approaching an intersection or any other geometric designs that are prevalent in today's road infrastructure.

 

If these guidelines aren't followed, then accidents can and will happen.  

interesting point here.

 

so the rider was going "70km/h" - eyewitness account

 

the speed limit is 60km/h here.

well according to the sign on googlemaps it is. but only on the 2013/2015 streetview shot.

the august 2017 one it is gone, either unintentionaly due to MyCity bus stop construction, or taken down.

 

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-34.014376,18.3502101,3a,75y,149.28h,82.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3MweXuLQomAmEnkoYXrgoQ!2e0!5s20170801T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

Lesson here for me, if you're going to be going that fast, keep your eyes open. my natural instinct is that I am kakking my broeks at 70km/h +

[DieselnDust]

Having your head down on any road that's open to traffic is inexcusable.

 

Once my neighbour had his head down while on a flat doing about 30kmh and was oblivious to a stationary bakkie with scaffolding extending out the back. Frame snapped in half at top tube and down tube with severe bruising on legs and ribs. Luckily no serious or head injuries.

 

So unfortunate and should definitely be a lesson to all of us. There may not have been enough time to stop, but I saw where the cyclist hit the van, and had he gone slower by even 1 second he would have missed the van.

 

 

Very key point. 

[Dirkitech]

For the following two replies, please keep in mind I've never cycled in Cape Town and am not familiar with the specific intersection (in fact, I thought this post was about Suikerbosrand and that there was a traffic light I'm unaware of!):

I Agree, you have enough time to brake when the robot turns yellow, even at 70km/h. 

I've had similar experiences in Germiston where I cycled speed limit or less, started braking and only ended up skidding 1/3rd into the intersection (nicely bedded ultegra brakes, conti gp400 s2).
Your claim is nothing more than a personal opinion at this point (like my counter claim), but if you can support it with evidence or relevant calculations, that would be very interesting.

 

Maybe the lights should allow for a longer Orange. They are probably set for a flat surface and nobody has applied their mind to setting them up. In a normal situation a car and a bike will brake from their normal speed at around the same time in a 60 zone, car at 60 and bike at 32ish. The light has not been set up to accommodate that cyclists may be approaching at more than 30km/h.

 

its like making the orange light on a 80km/k zone the same as a 60km/h zone, you will have cars sailing though. (Thats why the orange is longer on the R44)

I like the idea, but practically feasible? On paper (where paper also implies people are law abiding citizens, also ironic as it wouldv'e prevented this incident entirely) that would be a great idea, but do you not think this will only allow for more vehicles rushing over on orange? Like mentioned, I don't know what traffic is like in CT, but in jhb, a longer orange just means more cars passing before the last 2-4 passing through red.

[DieselnDust]

Where is the PPA in this. The idea of a longer orange light time is a good one.

 

 

A longer orange just gives drivers more time to accelerate through the light change. Drivers already run red lights as if they are breathing air. Giving them a longer orange will only make it worse. The Traffic Management peeps need to shorten the lag between for the green, thus promoting more accidents. Then you'll see a change in behaviour. SAFFAS will exploit the safety change for performance gain. theres no interest in life expectancy here.

[sawystertrance]

I think the City of Cape Town's obsession with traffic lights is at least partially at fault here. In many places they could easily be replaced with traffic roundabouts which are proven to be much more efficient and, if built correctly, safer too.

[FootballingCyclist]

Is this something PPA could get involved with? Requesting CoCT to clear bushes and increase the length of the orange? Hopefully something positive can come from it.

 

I think there are a couple of spots around the peninsula that could be addressed with small changes to make it slightly safer.

 

One being the two grates on main road that push you into the road to avoid. A small amount of tar of the left would allow a rider not to have to move out.

 

Capture1.JPG

I cycle that section daily, there are 3 grates in the space of 1km and then another after the robots just opposite Robbie Stripp motors.

[Pure Savage]

interesting point here.

 

so the rider was going "70km/h" - eyewitness account

 

the speed limit is 60km/h here.

well according to the sign on googlemaps it is. but only on the 2013/2015 streetview shot.

the august 2017 one it is gone, either unintentionaly due to MyCity bus stop construction, or taken down.

 

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-34.014376,18.3502101,3a,75y,149.28h,82.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3MweXuLQomAmEnkoYXrgoQ!2e0!5s20170801T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

Lesson here for me, if you're going to be going that fast, keep your eyes open. my natural instinct is that I am kakking my broeks at 70km/h +

I highly doubt he was going above 70 at that point, thats near the top of the hill. Only top out at 75 odd past the second set of robots. More likely 60 ish. 

[Shebeen]

things have changed since here

 

[Zub]

For the following two replies, please keep in mind I've never cycled in Cape Town and am not familiar with the specific intersection (in fact, I thought this post was about Suikerbosrand and that there was a traffic light I'm unaware of!):

I've had similar experiences in Germiston where I cycled speed limit or less, started braking and only ended up skidding 1/3rd into the intersection (nicely bedded ultegra brakes, conti gp400 s2).

Your claim is nothing more than a personal opinion at this point (like my counter claim), but if you can support it with evidence or relevant calculations, that would be very interesting.

 

I like the idea, but practically feasible? On paper (where paper also implies people are law abiding citizens, also ironic as it wouldv'e prevented this incident entirely) that would be a great idea, but do you not think this will only allow for more vehicles rushing over on orange? Like mentioned, I don't know what traffic is like in CT, but in jhb, a longer orange just means more cars passing before the last 2-4 passing through red.

 

This is exactly what will happen. Knowing that the Orange light will be timed longer, more people will take chances and jump before it changes red.

 

I see this every singe day on my commutes in Cape Town, by both motorists and cyclists. People just don't care about the law and are even less concerned about the consequences of their actions.

 

It's a Cape town culture thing, everybody is impatient and ready to show the finger to the next person.

[Zub]

In Saudi I've actually seen timers at the robots, so while the robot is green you can see the number of seconds the robot will remain green for, before the Orange light comes on.

[porqui]

things have changed since here

 

 

Darwinian !!!

[lechatnoir]

I think the City of Cape Town's obsession with traffic lights is at least partially at fault here. In many places they could easily be replaced with traffic roundabouts which are proven to be much more efficient and, if built correctly, safer too.

 

I'm going with a 'Hard No!' on this one... A traffic circle there would be a disaster for everyone.

 

That robot's there for the new Kerzner estate that's going up, and frankly, people exiting there will have zero to no chance of getting across. Same at Llandudno. We curse in peak hours, but others use that road too and need consideration.

 

The silly robot nearer the bottom on Sbossie is somewhat daft and is for pedestrians getting off at the buss stop, but there's no intersection there, just a zebra crossing