For the aviation fans

[Capricorn]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trevorsumner/status/1106934369158078470

 

Very interesting summary of the situation and the potential root cause

[kosmonooit]

I hear you, discussions that are fact based will be far more productive for everyone. But to be 100% verified facts, the only people who help in that are Boeing as they are the only ones with the intellectual property of the design calculation package. And technically, they would still be unverified until some other qualified outfit can review them.

 

I suppose we could also consider it as factual if the FAA or similar investigator releases their final reports into the crashes if they have been supported in their investigations by Boeing.

 

..

 

It not just about being productive, its the way establishing an argument works, in proposing a hypothesis you need to reference sources upon which you build your argument. At least that is the way I was taught.

 

As I said not that I am saying that blog is wrong (anon blog it should be said, no reference to authors) but what we need to see is a graph of center of lift  vs attitude vs speed vs throttle position. Surely that is not proprietary or design secrets, its flight / performance characteristics which every pilot flying the type should be familiar with.

 

Also from what I understand there is multiple ways of disengaging MCAS, surely the pilots were aware, or should have been aware its tad touchy but who knows its all speculation at this stage, but I am sure the facts will come forth soon.

 

But I am going back to the problem of over-automation and the belief that the computer will fly the plane. Remember that Asiana Airlines Flight 214?

 

"The NTSB found that the "Mismanagement of Approach and Inadequate Monitoring of Airspeed led to the Crash of Asiana flight 214". The NTSB determined that the flight crew mismanaged the initial approach and that the airplane was well above the desired glidepath. In response, the captain selected an inappropriate autopilot mode, which, without the captain's awareness, resulted in the autothrottle no longer controlling airspeed. The aircraft then descended below the desired glidepath with the crew unaware of the decreasing airspeed."

Edited March 17, 2019 by kosmonooit

[kosmonooit]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trevorsumner/status/1106934369158078470

 

Very interesting summary of the situation and the potential root cause

 

He is consolidating various beliefs put forth recently on the Interwebs, and he omits to say at the beginning  "In my opinion as a  software engineer, not an aeronautical nor a professional who worked on or with this type"

 

You can't rule anything out at this stage but typically disasters like this are not the result of one error or problem, but a series of issues / problems / decisions / reactions. 

 

In terms of software it doesn't have to be a bug as such but behavior under certain conditions. Software is created by humans who try think through the problem or the task and try and think of every eventuality but often this is not the case.

Edited March 17, 2019 by kosmonooit

[Bonus]

I hadn't seen the impact site of the Ethiopian crash until I saw it on the news today. It was pretty chilling.

[eddy]

Some of the questions raised above about the how and why of the MCAS are dealt with in a reasoned on well written explanation of the need for, the design of, verification process and shortcomings of the implementation in a report done after the Malaysian crash but BEFORE Ethiopia sourcing FAA safety engineers.

 

In short, under pressure from "management" the FAA safety engineers delegated some of the certification oversight to Boeing, which would have had them marking their own homework, to be reviewed by the FAA.

 

Other than the usual suspects of single AOA input source, lack of documentation for training, etc. the report names two new aspects I had not known of before:

 

The original MCAS specification as reviewed and used in the risk assesment by the FAA reflected a maximum stabilizer deflection of 0.6 degreeds whereas the max deflection as implemented was 2.5 degrees; second

 

The original design was for a once-off intervention by MCAS, whereas after each override of the system (by pulling back) the system applied another 2.5 degrees until full deflection was reached. So because it reset itself after each pilot input, it was in effect able to deflect to full nose down rather than to a maximum of 0.6 degrees.

 

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/

[Long Wheel Base]

To celebrate post # 747...

 

BA-Landor-unveil-2-e1552292913478-916x515.jpg

 

 

[edit]  - seeing as LWB missed a golden opportunity 

So Yesterday I was with @RearWheelDrive who is not only my buddy but also my dentist. So while he was working on my tooth he had this thread open and this picture came up. He had the screen positioned so we could both read it and I saw my name mentioned. 

It's lekker going to him as I still get my bikehub fix while lying in the chair.

[Long Wheel Base]

On the crash topic, I watched Dave Stock fly and crash the English Electric Lightning, ZU-BEX, at TFDC Overberg Fly-In back in 2009.

 

That was a sad day, and I was taking pics of him rotate in-front of me on take-off. I remember seeing trailing smoke from under the fuselage, and about 5 or so minutes later, he called Pan, Pan, Pan and vectored away from the airfield. The runway nets were raised, and as he was burning away fuel, he suddenly went inverted, and rolled into a nose down attitude spiraling to the ground.

 

A man who was beside me was listening over a radio, and he went ash white and said he just heard Dave over the radio tell ATC his ejection seat failed, and he was going in, and to tell her he loves her, and then nothing.

 

Out on the horizon, a large ball of flame and then a column of black smoke filled the distant sky.

 

Immediately followed by a number of Oryx departing and fire trucks roaring off into the distance.

 

It is a day that will forever be stuck in my mind. I still remember not taking pictures of him after he spiraled, knowing his fate.

 

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n793r

Sjoe that is a chilling story. I am sure it will forever be in your mind and not in a good way.

[SwissVan]

So Yesterday I was with @RearWheelDrive who is not only my buddy but also my dentist. So while he was working on my tooth he had this thread open and this picture came up. He had the screen positioned so we could both read it and I saw my name mentioned.

It's lekker going to him as I still get my bikehub fix while lying in the chair.

When in the same position on the dentists chair I’ve often thought it would be cool if they had some “IFE” type screen on the ceiling for patients to watch instead of the usual white ceiling or posters of how to brush your teeth....

[Robbie Stewart]

So Yesterday I was with @RearWheelDrive who is not only my buddy but also my dentist. So while he was working on my tooth he had this thread open and this picture came up. He had the screen positioned so we could both read it and I saw my name mentioned. 

It's lekker going to him as I still get my bikehub fix while lying in the chair.

 

Glad I could oblige in making a dentist visit better. I wish more dentists would do this. My dentist keeps telling me about his rides with Tygerberg MTB Slowcoach club, but I am normally unable to respond because he has his hands and tools filling my mouth. It would indeed be great if a dentist has some screen on the ceiling to entertain patients, rather than having to try hard not to look him in the eye all the time...talk about awkward.

 

 

[edit]

 

and to celebrate post 777

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Robbie Stewart

[Long Wheel Base]

When in the same position on the dentists chair I’ve often thought it would be cool if they had some “IFE” type screen on the ceiling for patients to watch instead of the usual white ceiling or posters of how to brush your teeth....

 

 

Glad I could oblige in making a dentist visit better. I wish more dentists would do this. My dentist keeps telling me about his rides with Tygerberg MTB Slowcoach club, but I am normally unable to respond because he has his hands and tools filling my mouth. It would indeed be great if a dentist has some screen on the ceiling to entertain patients, rather than having to try hard not to look him in the eye all the time...talk about awkward.

If you guys are ever in Joburg then you definitely need to go visit RearWheelDrive .

[Bateleur1]

I see Lufthansa has place an order for 20 B787 and is also expanding their A350 fleet.   They will be getting rid of the A380 and eventually the B747

 

Interresting how they diversify their fleet.

 

Edit.  They ordered 20 787 and 20 A350 aircraft.  This will replace the ageing A340 fleet and 6 A380 will be returned to Airbus.  Somehow think they might get passed on to Emirates then.  At the end the only 4 engined aircraft in the fleet will be the 747-8 fleet.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Bateleur1

[Lotus]

Some airports on this list I haven't heard of:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/scenic-airport-landings-2019/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Most+Recent%29

[Lotus]

Another hammer blow for Boeing:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/22/business/boeing-737-max-garuda-cancel/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Most+Recent%29

[Bateleur1]

Another hammer blow for Boeing:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/22/business/boeing-737-max-garuda-cancel/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Most+Recent%29

 

That is a big blow.  50 Aircraft.  And I think there are more too come the longer they wait to identify the cause of the accidents.  I hope the get to the bottom of this soon.  The 737 is such pilar in the Boeing family.

[MrJacques]

https://www.traveller24.com/Flights/boeing-737-to-get-new-feature-absent-from-lion-air-and-ethiopian-airlines-crashed-planes-industry-source-20190322

 

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/boeing-to-make-safety-feature-standard-on-troubled-max-jets-20190322

 

I see a lawsuit coming, they should have done more after the first crash to prevent another one.

[Long Wheel Base]

MEDIA RELEASE

The Matsieng Flying Club regrets to make the following announcement:

1. At approximately 18h20 GMT on 23 March 2019 a 2016 Beechcraft Kingair B200 aircraft A2-MBM was involved in an ground impact incident resulting in the death of the pilot and the destruction of infrastructure at Matsieng Aerodrome in Botswana.

2. Earlier in the afternoon the deceased pilot was an uninvited guest at a private function that was held at the Matsieng Flying Club facility at Matsieng Aerodrome. It is rumoured that the pilot was involved in a domestic dispute earlier in the afternoon.

3. At approximately 18h15 the aircraft approached Matsieng Aerodrome from the direction of Sir Seretse Khama Airport and made a number of low level fly pasts from different directions past the Club facilities next to the Air Traffic Control tower.

4. Matsieng Flying Club members sensed that the pilot might have had an ulterior motive at the time and ordered an immediate evacuation of the club premises by the approximately fifty attendees.

5. The final extreme low level run by the aircraft along runway 36 resulted in an impact with the Matsieng Flying Club facility at ground level.

6. The Club facility and Matsieng ATC tower was destroyed on impact. The post impact fire destroyed 13 parked vehicles.

7. There was no serious injury to any person in the vicinity of the accident scene.

8. The emergency services of the Kgatleng District Council were on the scene within minutes to attend to the post impact fire and distress. These response actions are to be commended.

9. It is believed that the pilot had no permission to fly the aircraft involved.

10. The loss of life and damage is regretted.

11. The relevant authorities are currently completing investigations.