And just like that it's gone !!

[Gen]

yes - but why shouldnt it be? our generation just bent over while supplying the vaseline. I really take my hat off to the youngsters who are willing to question the status quo and improve it

Because that is reality of life.

 

Yes they may question it but they will be told to pack up and ship out, there is always the next willing person waiting.

 

Maybe they will change reality, but as it is that is reality.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Gen

[BigDL]

I like this response Stef.

 

So first let me say if it comes across as old fashioned boss type be gratefull for anything we give then. That is not the attitude that is behind the dumbfounded comment at all. It relates to the response of one individual, not all.

 

Any interviewee should be thankful (maybe that is the wrong word, possibly for being granted an interview, in other words an opportunity to sell their skills. Is that not what a first round of interviews is about? Selling your skills? Once you have sold your skills and you can see the company wants those skills and there is a bit of synergy between you and the company then you can start the negotiation of what the company can do for you if they want your skill set.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Forkie (post above) mentions company fit and verbalised it better than me.

 

It is just as important for the interviewee to get an idea of whether you or your company are someone that they would like to work with, as the other way around. If they only find out at a later stage or once they have started, that your corporate culture, personal style etc is not a good fit, then everyone has had their time wasted.

[SwissVan]

precisely !

 

Especially when the job application already outlines everything you already need to know (other than the company fit you mention)

Please, as a moderator on this forum set a good example and stick to the original topic.

 

You have been warned, but without the bragging point!

[BigDL]

Because that is reality of life.

 

Yes they may question it but they will be told to pack up and ship out, there is always the next willing person waiting.

I think that that was the case for our parents definitely, for some of us as well, but absolutely shouldn’t be the case for our children.

 

I love having hundreds of millennials in the workplace. So much better to have independent thinkers who will challenge and ask why than people who will just ask the boss as if the boss knows everything.

[Gen]

I think that that was the case for our parents definitely, for some of us as well, but absolutely shouldn’t be the case for our children.

 

I love having hundreds of millennials in the workplace. So much better to have independent thinkers who will challenge and ask why than people who will just ask the boss as if the boss knows everything.

For sure, reality would be a lot more enjoyable if things were easier and fun but some industries will never be like that because some jobs are just damn hard and unpleasant. Edited June 12, 2019 by Gen

[forkie]

I think that that was the case for our parents definitely, for some of us as well, but absolutely shouldn’t be the case for our children.

 

I love having hundreds of millennials in the workplace. So much better to have independent thinkers who will challenge and ask why than people who will just ask the boss as if the boss knows everything.

i work for a German company. if you think the millenials in SA are out there - you should see the young Germans. they have no problem questioning and arguing with the the CEO of the company. they see it as their right. I love it! I believe all authority should be questioned all the time. this generation will change the way we do things.

[BigDL]

I like this response Stef.

 

So first let me say if it comes across as old fashioned boss type be gratefull for anything we give them, that is not the case. That is not the attitude that is behind the dumbfounded comment at all. It relates to the response of one individual, not all responses.

 

Any interviewee should be thankful (maybe that is the wrong word), possibly for being granted an interview, in other words an opportunity to sell their skills. Is that not what a first round of interviews is about? Selling your skills? Once you have sold your skills and you can see the company wants those skills and there is a bit of synergy between you and the company then you can start the negotiation of what the company can do for you if they want your skill set.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Forkie (post above) mentions company fit and verbalised it better than me.

I would also challenge the premise that every interviewee should be grateful for the opportunity to interview. In this world where, as is demonstrated by some of the comments above, good talent is so hard to come by, I believe we should also be grateful that the interviewee is considering bringing their talents to our organisation.

[BigDL]

Gonna dive in here. I've written and seen a lot said about how employers have to cater to millennials. My response is always...uhhhh whaaat? Those and any other little Fokkers should fit into the way things are done now already. Wasn't it like that when you started your career? I don't recall having people falling over themselves to lick my nethers because I was the latest, greatest, newest-fangled Gen X cruising into the workplace. Nah mate, I had to cut my hair, adjust my attitude and knuckle down, or be on my way...

That sounds similar to what they tried to say at school when I was in standard six to justify matrics treating us like ****.

[stefmeister]

I like this response Stef.

 

So first let me say if it comes across as old fashioned boss type be gratefull for anything we give them, that is not the case. That is not the attitude that is behind the dumbfounded comment at all. It relates to the response of one individual, not all responses. 

 

Any interviewee should be thankful (maybe that is the wrong word), possibly for being granted an interview, in other words an opportunity to sell their skills. Is that not what a first round of interviews is about? Selling your skills? Once you have sold your skills and you can see the company wants those skills and there is a bit of synergy between you and the company then you can start the negotiation of what the company can do for you if they want your skill set.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Forkie (post above) mentions company fit and verbalised it better than me.

 

I tried to be subtle with my wording without accusing you of the above, but rather that that perception could come across.

Obviously there are a lot of crap candidates out there vying for the position and it's best to filter out those as soon as possible. 

But I've seen it all too often where a job is advertised and the requirements are as long as that of a CEO position, but the job description and remuneration itself is too vague.

Going to interviews cost time and money. People have to put in leave, and potentially travel far as well for job interviews, and it gets more difficult the lower you are in the food chain. To go through a screening and a further 2 "compatibility" interviews only to learn that the job does not live up to your expectations is just a waste of everyone's time. 

If I were to go for an interview I'd want to know the seniority of that position and the pay before I even send a CV, let alone go for the second interview. And if they can't sell said position to a person it most likely means that they're just looking for the cheapest candidate and not the best possible one.

[RocknRolla]

I am in the office interior industry, we deal with a lot of change management, due to certain companies going through major changes (cellular offices into open plan, executives sitting in open plan etc)

 

It is the way of the future, and the way "we work is changing on a yearly basis"

 

Like out education system (who in my opinion is not equipping youngsters for the new working world), some companies are stuck on the archaic ways of "corner office" status, and little empires within the office.

 

Times are a changing.

[BigDL]

I agree that the pendulum has swung the other way. I think there are a few things that contribute to this. I’m not sure though that it’s the right long term solution. But then again, seems many businesses are not or cannot plan for the long term anymore.

 

Back in the day, it was common for individuals to only work for one or two companies their whole lives. Whether this was due to it being a government job or not there were benefits in staying around. Pension plans in my mind the biggest. As a company would look after you long after you retire. Then there was a set and strict regime in place to govern promotions and your rise up through the company.

 

Today, it’s all about big money. Companies want to make big and so do individuals. This has lead to different thoughts and strategies. One of these has been that “happy” workers are better workers thus will make us more money. In putting this into action things like “employee satisfaction surveys” and other “put the employee first” tools have shifted the power from employer to employee. The employee now calls the shots to a degree and has way more power than before.

 

I think this worked at first. But the lazy nature of the human-being and lack of controlling the strategy has lead to underperforming greedy staff than feel entitled and valuable just because they rock up to work everyday. Then we add to this the complexity around who we can hire based on sex, race, age, qualifications etc and we end up with a workforce that is just not up to scratch in many instances.

Interesting point about “happy” workers and the strategy not working. I would be genuinely interested in examples of where this has not worked.

 

I can think of a few examples where it has worked. A few that come to mind would be Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook. They seem to be doing ok with the strategy.

[Benjamin]

yes - but why shouldnt it be? our generation just bent over while supplying the vaseline. I really take my hat off to the youngsters who are willing to question the status quo and improve it

It’s not that Work can’t be enjoyable. But getting up early and reporting for duty day after day after day isn’t ever as much fun as surfing , or watching series or whatsapping your mates. That’s the reality of life and work in any generation. Can’t buy the pronutro , or the designer Vodka without the paycheck

[Slowbee]

I would also challenge the premise that every interviewee should be grateful for the opportunity to interview. In this world where, as is demonstrated by some of the comments above, good talent is so hard to come by, I believe we should also be grateful that the interviewee is considering bringing their talents to our organisation.

Yes and no.

 

Perhaps grateful is not the word. But when you get an interview, you should recognise the you have been presented with an opportunity at the cost of someone else.

 

And yes, the company should recognise the skill set on offer, but in a first round of interviews, does the granting of an interview not already represent that recognition ?

 

Subsequent rounds (so called shortlisting) are a different kettle of fish.

[RocknRolla]

Interesting point about “happy” workers and the strategy not working. I would be genuinely interested in examples of where this has not worked.

 

I can think of a few examples where it has worked. A few that come to mind would be Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook. They seem to be doing ok with the strategy.

 

on the broad, yes, however their staff retention is dismal.

 

Our company ( a small one) tried the "keep everyone happy" one big family approach, and it backfired. There is a thin line between being so open minded (that your brain falls out) and progressive, that people start taking advantage of the situation. Which then meant a sudden "clamp down" to get peeps back on track.

 

Rules are extremely important, and it has to be clearly defined, yes it will be questioned, and being questioned is not an attempt to undermine authority, it's the foundation of change and new ideas. How an authoritative person handles the questions is another matter all together.

[BigDL]

i work for a German company. if you think the millenials in SA are out there - you should see the young Germans. they have no problem questioning and arguing with the the CEO of the company. they see it as their right. I love it! I believe all authority should be questioned all the time. this generation will change the way we do things.

The older I get, and the more I am exposed to leaders in business, the more I realise that there is no special intelligence or brainpower that you suddenly get when you are promoted. Of course experience counts, but it can also cause you to avoid innovation because you think you know the best way to get something done. Some of the best innovation I have seen has come from some young millennial pushing back when someone says “we do it this way because it’s always been done this way”. I love it when someone asks me why we are doing something a certain way, because it forces me to really understand rather than just do.

[BigDL]

on the broad, yes, however their staff retention is dismal.

 

Our company ( a small one) tried the "keep everyone happy" one big family approach, and it backfired. There is a thin line between being so open minded (that your brain falls out) and progressive, that people start taking advantage of the situation. Which then meant a sudden "clamp down" to get peeps back on track.

 

Rules are extremely important, and it has to be clearly defined, yes it will be questioned, and being questioned is not an attempt to undermine authority, it's the foundation of change and new ideas. How an authoritative person handles the questions is another matter all together.

Be keen to understand how their staff retention is dismal?