[Event] 2019 PPA One Tonner

[Pure Savage]

totally gatvol of the seeding game. I'm not going to enter every race just to get to A. 

 

You dont need to enter every PPA race, we have an A seeding from one event a year. Just ride faster.

[Rouxenator]

Seed(ing) is for the birds. 

[DieselnDust]

You dont need to enter every PPA race, we have an A seeding from one event a year. Just ride faster.

LOL ta for the advice. I'll HTFU then

[Lizzard30]

Ok cool thanks bud.

 

Wasn't sure if it was over both or just 1 or neither, the route maps are horrible and the route profile looks alot scarier than any of those roads actually are hence my confusion..

I live here and are pretty sure according to the route maps the 110 also not going through bothmanskop. It turns right at the 4 way stop towards Malmesbury and not via Hermon..

[Karman de Lange]

You dont need to enter every PPA race, we have an A seeding from one event a year. Just ride faster.

 

Rant on:

Just my opinion

 

And that is the biggest issue with current seeding .. 

 

one lucky event and TONS of noobs in A batch . . . ., they need to bring in UK mythology (points/race count to move up) or at least limit can only move up 1 group at time from the ~F groups , and you need to refresh status at least every 6 months or drop to lower group.

 

This will ensure that the A batch is  proper strong riders 

 

Rant off.

 

Edit:

But ja... its a funride after all .. so who cares about seeding

 

 

Edit: Edit

1000th post ..    (or about)

Edited October 4, 2019 by Karman de Lange

[Skubarra]

You dont need to enter every PPA race, we have an A seeding from one event a year. Just ride faster.

 

Just with regards to A bunch, I remember a year or 2 ago finishing at the sharp end of B bunch race after race, but frustratingly my seeding index never improved to give me an A seeding.

 

In my experience there are a few races out there that can bump you up to A even if (sometimes) you don't ride particularly well (One Tonner, WCE & CTCT jumps to mind). the rest often just a waste of effort.

 

Which is why I earlier posted that I find it quite funny that I'm now seeded in A when I'm not even trying (thanks to the litte 50km Hex Valley funride) when a year ago I would have given anything for a lucky break like that.

 

That said, I would take the Racetec/PPA system with all it's faults every day over the dog's breakfast named SASeeding.

[MDJ]

Swings and roundabouts .... you can't please all the people all the time 

 

Its definitely risky to everyone when there are guys in A/B/C/D-batch who don't have the group riding skills, or the 'experience' of recovering from some broken bones/a hard crash  . Normally these are the bigger batches riding faster and closer together and while its a 'race' and we all love the intensity most of us have a day job to get back to.

 

I think the lack of experience is the only factor that would be good for them to look at. Otherwise I don't mind riding in A,B,C,D,E,F - they all have some strong riders. Just as long as there are enough guys at the events! Its fun to adjust the riding based on the day, if you are stronger - do more work, get a paceline going, ride a TT ... the different dynamics makes it interesting!

[Pure Savage]

Just with regards to A bunch, I remember a year or 2 ago finishing at the sharp end of B bunch race after race, but frustratingly my seeding index never improved to give me an A seeding.

 

In my experience there are a few races out there that can bump you up to A even if (sometimes) you don't ride particularly well (One Tonner, WCE & CTCT jumps to mind). the rest often just a waste of effort.

 

Which is why I earlier posted that I find it quite funny that I'm now seeded in A when I'm not even trying (thanks to the litte 50km Hex Valley funride) when a year ago I would have given anything for a lucky break like that.

 

That said, I would take the Racetec/PPA system with all it's faults every day over the dog's breakfast named SASeeding.

One savage had not ridden a PPA race in ages and his seeding was H, 4 of us started together and we ended getting his seeding to B. Next event in B we caught A.

 

The MTB event make it tricky as the time gaps are massive vs road.

[Pure Savage]

Swings and roundabouts .... you can't please all the people all the time

 

Its definitely risky to everyone when there are guys in A/B/C/D-batch who don't have the group riding skills, or the 'experience' of recovering from some broken bones/a hard crash . Normally these are the bigger batches riding faster and closer together and while its a 'race' and we all love the intensity most of us have a day job to get back to.

 

I think the lack of experience is the only factor that would be good for them to look at. Otherwise I don't mind riding in A,B,C,D,E,F - they all have some strong riders. Just as long as there are enough guys at the events! Its fun to adjust the riding based on the day, if you are stronger - do more work, get a paceline going, ride a TT ... the different dynamics makes it interesting!

Thats why on Sunday there will be a few Savages in D. I don’t trust weekend warriors going down Bains trying to hang on or close a gap down hill.

[WW87]

I also see it with no major climbs

 

Plotted it on Strava:  https://www.strava.com/routes/22051390

 

Neither.

This is how I read the route. No major climbs, a lot of rolling hills, a a long slog into the wind if the SE is up.

Should be a fairly fast one. 

[Karman de Lange]

So most of the hub is starting in D .. pity i'm not strong enough to keep up that first bump (going by the strava stats)

 

I normaly catch bunches again on the down, but I don' t know bains (only driven it once by car years ago) so won't be taking any risks going down other side.. just not worth it.

 

might end up with a nice long 130km TT .. Just hope the rain stays away

[Skubarra]

Thats why on Sunday there will be a few Savages in D. I don’t trust weekend warriors going down Bains trying to hang on or close a gap down hill.

 

Great, will catch the Savage bus when you roll past C bunch 

[devocean]

Just with regards to A bunch, I remember a year or 2 ago finishing at the sharp end of B bunch race after race, but frustratingly my seeding index never improved to give me an A seeding.

 

In my experience there are a few races out there that can bump you up to A even if (sometimes) you don't ride particularly well (One Tonner, WCE & CTCT jumps to mind). the rest often just a waste of effort.

 

Which is why I earlier posted that I find it quite funny that I'm now seeded in A when I'm not even trying (thanks to the litte 50km Hex Valley funride) when a year ago I would have given anything for a lucky break like that.

 

That said, I would take the Racetec/PPA system with all it's faults every day over the dog's breakfast named SASeeding.

 

As I understand it, your seeding is calculated based on the winner's time, so I think it's irrelevant where you place in the group. I think a lot of guys misunderstand that. The times I've ridden in B, it was a coffee ride with everyone sprinting for a position at the finish line, and I'm sure it's probably similar with other groups. I always found if you're not in A group, the only way to improve seeding is to work hard together so that group's finishing time is closer to the winner's time. The lower the beta of the race, the closer to the winner's time you have to be to better your seeding, so on a flat or short race, it's almost impossible to improve seeding unless you're really seeded badly.

 

It's definitely easier to stay seeded in A once you get there, as you're more often than not riding with the winner for the majority of the race, if not all of it, so your time will likely be very close to the winning time. 

[Shebeen]

As I understand it, your seeding is calculated based on the winner's time, so I think it's irrelevant where you place in the group. I think a lot of guys misunderstand that. The times I've ridden in B, it was a coffee ride with everyone sprinting for a position at the finish line, and I'm sure it's probably similar with other groups. I always found if you're not in A group, the only way to improve seeding is to work hard together so that group's finishing time is closer to the winner's time. The lower the beta of the race, the closer to the winner's time you have to be to better your seeding, so on a flat or short race, it's almost impossible to improve seeding unless you're really seeded badly.

 

It's definitely easier to stay seeded in A once you get there, as you're more often than not riding with the winner for the majority of the race, if not all of it, so your time will likely be very close to the winning time. 

 

 

exactly...seeding does not reward your sprinting skills but your bunch wheelsucking ability.

 

it's not a perfect system. there is no way to please everyone.

but it does work well enough.

 

 

i like the way they have introduced penalties for races older than 6 months.. savages once a year plan has it's drawbacks now.

[MDJ]

As I understand it, your seeding is calculated based on the winner's time, so I think it's irrelevant where you place in the group. I think a lot of guys misunderstand that. The times I've ridden in B, it was a coffee ride with everyone sprinting for a position at the finish line, and I'm sure it's probably similar with other groups. I always found if you're not in A group, the only way to improve seeding is to work hard together so that group's finishing time is closer to the winner's time. The lower the beta of the race, the closer to the winner's time you have to be to better your seeding, so on a flat or short race, it's almost impossible to improve seeding unless you're really seeded badly.

 

It's definitely easier to stay seeded in A once you get there, as you're more often than not riding with the winner for the majority of the race, if not all of it, so your time will likely be very close to the winning time. 

 

Join a cycling club, make some friend 

 

Seriously that was how I got to A this season. I joined a club over winter - some really strong riders, which makes your training a lot more painful ... err I mean a lot more fun. We started the first race in a C-E group, worked hard the front, caught A ... then rode to the end.

 

That is one advantage of starting with a later batch, if the next one rides ok - all you need to do is catch them. There is always luck involved, but the more races you do the luckier you get 

[Skubarra]

As I understand it, your seeding is calculated based on the winner's time, so I think it's irrelevant where you place in the group. I think a lot of guys misunderstand that. The times I've ridden in B, it was a coffee ride with everyone sprinting for a position at the finish line, and I'm sure it's probably similar with other groups. I always found if you're not in A group, the only way to improve seeding is to work hard together so that group's finishing time is closer to the winner's time. The lower the beta of the race, the closer to the winner's time you have to be to better your seeding, so on a flat or short race, it's almost impossible to improve seeding unless you're really seeded badly.

 

It's definitely easier to stay seeded in A once you get there, as you're more often than not riding with the winner for the majority of the race, if not all of it, so your time will likely be very close to the winning time. 

 

 

exactly...seeding does not reward your sprinting skills but your bunch wheelsucking ability.

 

it's not a perfect system. there is no way to please everyone.

but it does work well enough.

 

 

i like the way they have introduced penalties for races older than 6 months.. savages once a year plan has it's drawbacks now.

 

I understand that your placing in the group is irrelevant when they calculate the seeding, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating when you finish near the front of your group race after race without seeing any improvement in your seeding (actually my seeding dropped to C that season)

 

At the time didn't feel that the system was working, of course now that a random mtb result bumped up my seeding to below 5 I say it works perfectly fine... At least until the end of the year until the penalties start biting. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Skubarra