Nic Dlamini's arm broken by Table Mountain rangers

[Andreas_187]

They need to throw the book at the ranger. Regardless of permit, he manhandled someone who is tip toeing on cleats so badly that he snaps his arm, throws him in the back of the bakkie and within 2 seconds grabs his packet of chips.

[scotty]

Many questions have been asked about how the rangers could have handled it differently. Here is another way, that, I think, would have been better than arresting him and breaking his arm:

 

Before the ranger tried to physically subdue him and arrest him and chuck him, broken arm and all, into the back of a bakkie, the rangers already had full control of his bike. Confiscate the bike, tell him to come and pay the fine to get his bike back. 

 

Traffic cops confiscate your phone, legally, if you talk while driving. Why not a bike? Why arrest someone for something like a permit issue?

You assuming Nic will stand quietly by while his bike costing thousands of rand is tossed into the back of a truck. If he resisted been stopped how much more if this happened(pulling match with Nic on one side holding onto the bike, Ranger on the other. Damage ? who pays) . Then leave him standing there, vulnerable ?  Much like arrest procedure, do the Rangers have the authority same as police and metro to confiscate. Stand to be corrected but I highly doubt it. 

[DJR]

You assuming Nic will stand quietly by while his bike costing thousands of rand is tossed into the back of a truck. If he resisted been stopped how much more if this happened(pulling match with Nic on one side holding onto the bike, Ranger on the other. Damage ? who pays) . Then leave him standing there, vulnerable ?  Much like arrest procedure, do the Rangers have the authority same as police and metro to confiscate. Stand to be corrected but I highly doubt it. 

Well, then tell us which way you would prefer for someone you care about.

 

Arrest & broken arm?

 

Or bike impounded and pay fine?

[scotty]

Well, then tell us which way you would prefer for someone you care about.

 

Arrest & broken arm?

 

Or bike impounded and pay fine?

I would hope that they would not be in that position as 1) They would have a permit 2) If they did not have a permit they would leave as supposed to. 

[Also-oldschool]

1. I can’t understand as a road cyclist - why we road cyclist are not allowed to ride on the roads (paid for by the tax payer) in Sanparks area. Top of Ou kaapse Weg where the incident happened today is about a 2 km stretch but means if you start from main road Lakeside you get a proper Climb about 448 m elevation. Cape point another road - all these roads are relatively quite in terms of motorized traffic. On roads where most people drive on to get to there activity (the road was not laid by tax payer money to be an activity) - which I can understand why an activity card is need. A road cyclist is just using the road. We don’t even pay the private operators to use Chapman’s peak!

 

2. In the USA to be accepted into the Military you have to do an IQ test. If your IQ is less than 84 the US military has determined you are not “trainable.” I would like to suggest in RSA any government employee, public servant or politician should have to go thou an IQ test and if you job offer you any form of power in government employment your IQ need to be sufficient to handle that power.

 

3. Wishing Nic a speedy recovery.

[scotty]

Well, then tell us which way you would prefer for someone you care about.

 

Arrest & broken arm?

 

Or bike impounded and pay fine?

Something else, are they expected to confiscate bikes from every rider who does not have a permit. What then happens to the rider, do they leave him there, In Nics case he refused to get into the vehicle.

[Mamil]

This is not an issue of Nic is right and SANparks wrong - this is an issue about how when and where we sanction violence against the citizenry. Arguments that point out that Nic didn't have a permit, that he gave "lip" to the rangers, whatever their accuracy have no bearing on the situation because we cannot allow officials to resort to violence unless very specific conditions are in place (life threatening situation, direct harm to others etc). 

 

The consequence of not defending this principle in absolute terms for a society are pretty dire.

 

Nic should receive the 2k fine that the law allows for riding without a permit. The rangers should be criminally prosecuted and Nic should be compensated for his injury by SANparks.

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't seen that at all.

 

I don't think one single person has condoned the rough handling of Nic.

 

What people have said is that he might not be an 'innocent' victim and that picking a side and joining in the 'Nic is right and Sanparks are horrible beasts' outrage without acknowledging that doesn't make sense.

 

YES, Parks officials were wrong. I don't think anyone has disputed that. What people are questioning is what led up to the incident.

 

I won't pick sides. I think both parties got themselves into this mess and they are all idiots for letting it escalate

[Mamil]

 I despair for humanity.

 

Great post deleted to save space .... about the despair ... Me too. 

[Also-oldschool]

O

Edited December 28, 2019 by Also-oldschool

[Also-oldschool]

1. I can’t understand as a road cyclist - why we road cyclist are not allowed to ride on the roads (paid for by the tax payer) in Sanparks area. Top of Ou kaapse Weg where the incident happened today is about a 2 km stretch but means if you start from main road Lakeside you get a proper Climb about 448 m elevation. Cape point another road - all these roads are relatively quite in terms of motorized traffic. On roads where most people drive on to get to there activity (the road was not laid by tax payer money to be an activity) - which I can understand why an activity card is need. A road cyclist is just using the road. We don’t even pay the private operators to use Chapman’s peak!

 

2. In the USA to be accepted into the Military you have to do an IQ test. If your IQ is less than 84 the US military has determined you are not “trainable.” I would like to suggest in RSA any government employee, public servant or politician should have to go thou an IQ test and if you job offer you any form of power in government employment your IQ need to be sufficient to handle that power.

 

3. Wishing Nic a speedy recovery.

As a roady you don’t need to pay?? Really!!!

 

Is that not the exact issue? Why should anyone pay? The trails were built by and maintained by the local mtb community with ( as far as I know ) little or no assistance from NPB. The jeep tracks were either built by locals in Noordhoek Valley long before you were born. The balance of the trails were built by current and past gov bodies. So following your rationale, why should I or anybody pay??

 

Simple, the moment you go through the gate you are liable to pay. End of story. Nobody is special!! Not even you

Edited December 28, 2019 by Also-oldschool

[Patchelicious]

My question is posed at the comments that it could have been handled differently. Sure, now lets hear them. Its easy to do the knee jerk reaction, but put yourself in the rangers shoes, what should they have done. I doubt the Ranger tried to outdo that testosterone thug who broke the dogs leg and thought I can do better. No where in the footage did I hear him say to Nic, I am going to snap your arm. Rough handling, sure, but it appears only 1 Ranger was involved, If Nic was bigger and stronger I'm sure the others would have joined.

I assume you don’t agree with how they handled Nic? If you do then please correct me, if you don’t then answer your own question, “how exactly the rangers deal with someone who refuses to produce a permit?”

 

And feel free to be specific.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Patchelicious

[Pure Savage]

Ok so guys doing their job asking for permits must wait until Matt has done doing an interval?

 

NO! This does not justify anything, rather point cyclists in a really rubbish, 'my way or no way' better than you culture.

 

We are permitted to ride there and when we do, we agree to the fact that the rangers can and will ask to see your permit. By not stopping when they ask, for whatever reason, you are being a knob.

 

I also say BOLLOCKS to the fact that he didn't know he needed a permit. To get to where he was he had to ride past closed booms with big pictures and signs on. Coupled with the fact that he lives in Capricorn and has been riding the peninsula for years. I call rubbish.

 

Stop and show your card. Stop when asked. If this is going to continue Parks will close silvermine and tokai. This sort of thing isn't worth it. Dealing with people too good to stop when asked.

 

If I was Parks I would have kicked Matt out of the park too and would consider stopping all cyclists from entering the reserve and tokai/silvermine.

 

That way everyone is a rogue rider and they can then focus on catching the 'real' criminals instead of chasing people who are above the rules and couldn't care

It just don’t charge cyclists and catch the real criminals

[scotty]

News24 report, by someone who witnessed the incident, show a whole different picture. 

 

A witness who filmed Friday's altercation in which cyclist Nicholas Dlamini's arm was broken says the rider was not aggressive towards SANParks officers. 

Donovan le Cok said in a statement that he got to the scene when Dlamini was already off his bike. 

"What they had done is, it’s a downhill to the exit and they sort of jumped out and grabbed his handlebar to make him stop which made him fall, obviously. Nic was quite upset, he was hurt and his bike was damaged."

"At that point there was a heated discussion with the head ranger, Nic wasn’t aggressive towards him, trying to get away or resisting being detained. The guy just laid into, turned him around, and twisted his arm high above his head," Le Cok said. 

 

He detailed how he had to stop filming the altercation, as he said that the rangers were trying to grab his phone. 

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/witness-says-dlamini-didnt-resist-being-detained-by-sanparks-officials-20191228

[Icycling]

The Mountain Club of South Africa - Cape Town Section

2 hrs ·

While we have politicians focussed on Table Mountain National Park rangers following the rather shocking incident involving Nic Dlamini on Friday, the MCSA CT would like to use the opportunity to bring to their attention the fact that this was not an isolated incident.
In preparation for a media statement and a proposed meeting with administrators on all three levels of government, we need information about past incidents.
If you have been involved in incidents of altercations with TMNP rangers in the past, regardless of how serious it was, you can get in touch with us (you can remain anonymous) by replying to this post, DM-ing us or sending an email to chairman@mcsacapetown.co.za with TMNP in the reference
We sincerely hope to find a permanent solution to the broader matter.
#nicdlamini

[Pure Savage]

Good to see the hub victim blaming still strong.

[gummibear]

Great idea [emoji6]

 

https://twitter.com/graham_angwazi/status/1210584492936716295?s=21