Thinking about an eBike purchase

[Hairy]

41 minutes ago, Grease_Monkey said:

And I am returning the ebike today. It was fun... but I can’t say I am too heart sore giving it back.

Money no object I’d buy one as a +1, but every time I get on my normal bike I realise I actually like the suffering somewhat.

I assume you are also happily married then

[Grease_Monkey]

11 minutes ago, Hairy said:

I assume you are also happily married then

hahaha correct you are. We even decided to have 2 kids 16 months apart. Maybe I am a sucker for punishment.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Grease_Monkey

[Hairy]

28 minutes ago, Grease_Monkey said:

hahaha correct you are. We even decided to have 2 kids 16 months apart. Maybe I am a sucker for punishment.

lol ... I know your pain

[Showtime]

21 hours ago, Hairy said:

This could be funny ..... pass someone on the climb and say you do not have the battery and motor fitted as it is in for a service, so now the bike is light and climbs faster ... now you need to play this right and not speed off, but slowly slowy increase the pace while the other person tries to keep up

Reminds me of a story I heard.

Two avid runners were out for a run. They were tapering for Comrades so felt like they had some legs. They encountered a farm worker jogging to work with his boots on and ran with him. They decided to up the pace just for fun to see what happens. After a while he said it's really nice talking to you, but I'm going to be late for work if I don't hurry up an dropped them.

[aquaratza]

My "normal" bike was out of action due to a dodgy rear shock so I rode my ebike with friends who were on normal bikes. One of the guest riders joining us didn't know me and started off our encounter by lightly knocking me being on an ebike... so I turned it off without telling him and then proceeded to chase him up a somewhat steep and technical trail (Hoogekraal). Eventually, on a steeper section of the trail, as he panted his lungs out, he tuned me again about how much I was cheating being on an ebike. At which point I revealed that it had been off since the car park and laughed like a devil. Truth be told I partially wrecked myself keeping up with him while hauling a ~24 kg ebike up the hill, but it was so worth it

The ebike came in handy when I found myself hurrying home through the streets of Durbanville after sunset.

[ChrisF]

Some feedback that may assist e-bike owners.

 

Dropped off two bikes at Knipe_Racing, and had a lekker chat with Louise.

 

They are now doing lots of ebike repairs.  Even complete rebuilds of various motors.

 

The days of being at the mercy of the importers are quickly coming to an end.   

 

 

[aquaratza]

I recently upgraded my ebike (used 2017 -> used 2018). The motors in the 2017 and 2018 models have some known weak points, particularly the sprag clutch (flimsy) and the outer bearings (which aren't watertight). Both tend to catastrophically self-destruct.

Louis/Knipe Racing, at my request, did some preventative work on the motor where they removed it from the frame, replaced the dodgy bearings, greased where necessary, etc. It runs really nicely now, particularly when the motor's turned off  They've also got fancy pants sprag clutches in stock that have a stainless steel retaining structure to them (instead of plastic), which are superior to the originals.

We're really lucky to have someone local who's proficient on this stuff. There aren't that many people globally that can do this kind of maintenance and repair work reliably.

Edited May 28, 2021 by aquaratza

[MajG]

Not sure if this been asked before or if it's relevant 

 

Do you think a newish rider will need slightly less skill when riding technical trails with an ebike?more ascending uphill or negotiating flat technical sections 

 

My reasoning is that in assist or turbo mode ,an assisted pedal stroke will push/force you over or thru obstacles whereas your own power stroke might not be able to.

 

 

[LazyTrailRider]

15 minutes ago, MajG said:

Not sure if this been asked before or if it's relevant 

 

Do you think a newish rider will need slightly less skill when riding technical trails with an ebike?more ascending uphill or negotiating flat technical sections 

 

My reasoning is that in assist or turbo mode ,an assisted pedal stroke will push/force you over or thru obstacles whereas your own power stroke might not be able to.

 

 

Yes, it helps. My wife has for example been able to get around tight uphill switchbacks which previously just frustated her. Momentum is an important part of riding, and the extra boost makes a big difference to a novice.

[MajG]

5 minutes ago, LazyTrailRider said:

Yes, it helps. My wife has for example been able to get around tight uphill switchbacks which previously just frustated her. Momentum is an important part of riding, and the extra boost makes a big difference to a novice.

Was thinking about this,  will make an accomplished rider even better but can count against a newby if they do get onto a normal bike again.

But I guess on a technical descent like DH0 in tokai it won't add more ease, it's more on flat and up technical routes. 

[ChrisF]

MajG riding an ebike on trails is "different" to riding a normal bike.

 

It requires a different approach ....

 

You DO need basic bike skills.  And you certainly, and importantly, need to be able to read the trail ahead.

 

Few examples ...

 

In tight twisty stuff the ebike accelerates a LOT faster, and it is very easy to over cook it ....

 

Downhill ... the motor input is much less of an issue.  But now you need to be aware of the extra weight and get your braking right .... some entry level bikes dont have the brakes for this.

 

 

Proper rocky climbs ... think of that last little section to the Tygerberg mast .... I find that using "trail mode" is much more manageble that boost.  The smoother power output keeps traction in check.  YES, this makes this climb a lot easier than a normal bike.  Worth noting that boost often cause the rear wheel to spin out, loss off momentum and making it very difficult.

 

Sections such as Bloemen Climb is a breeze in traction mode.

 

 

Lots been written about the ebike getting newbies to the top .... often these newbies dont have the skills for the fast decents .....   hardly the ebikes fault, I have seen strong young newbie riders on normal bikes make it to the top, then over cook it on the downhills ....

[MajG]

17 hours ago, ChrisF said:

MajG riding an ebike on trails is "different" to riding a normal bike.

 

It requires a different approach ....

 

You DO need basic bike skills.  And you certainly, and importantly, need to be able to read the trail ahead.

 

Few examples ...

 

In tight twisty stuff the ebike accelerates a LOT faster, and it is very easy to over cook it ....

 

Downhill ... the motor input is much less of an issue.  But now you need to be aware of the extra weight and get your braking right .... some entry level bikes dont have the brakes for this.

 

 

Proper rocky climbs ... think of that last little section to the Tygerberg mast .... I find that using "trail mode" is much more manageble that boost.  The smoother power output keeps traction in check.  YES, this makes this climb a lot easier than a normal bike.  Worth noting that boost often cause the rear wheel to spin out, loss off momentum and making it very difficult.

 

Sections such as Bloemen Climb is a breeze in traction mode.

 

 

Lots been written about the ebike getting newbies to the top .... often these newbies dont have the skills for the fast decents .....   hardly the ebikes fault, I have seen strong young newbie riders on normal bikes make it to the top, then over cook it on the downhills ....

Power of ebikes might put some newby riders on ebikes in sticky situations that they might not have the skillset to manage it.

Had no idea bikes have a trail mode which gives even power delivery , good to know

I will eventually go the ebike route, just scared to take the step and never want to ride a normal bike again????????

[ChrisF]

The different brands have different control setups ....

 

Specialized - 3 lights, ie Eco, Trail, Boost. 

 

Giant - 5 lights, ie Eco, Basic, Active, Sport, Power

 

On the power setting I find the "burst of power" too much in the very technical section, and the rear wheel starts spinning when you need the constant grip.  On the Active (3) setting I have ample assist for 98 % of the climbs on our local trails, AND constant grip from the rear wheel.

 

Remember none of these settings can give you any more than 250W assist ... if you are putting out as little as 100W, then you already get full motor assist on the Basic (2) setting on a Giant ...

 

 

Well worth your time to experiment with the rider app and customising the assist levels ....  I have gone with lower assist levels on the first four lights.  Still plenty assist !!  But also marginally more range.

[Zebra]

To further add to what ChrisF says, the conversion kits that you bolt on to a bike to create an eBike, usually have NINE settings, (11% increments), so power can be laid down according to your needs…

when I first built the bike 5 odd years back, it came with 3 settings, Low, Medium and High, but just 12 months later I got a call to bring in bike for a software upgrade, and the 9 levels it has now are MUCH ‘smoother’ than just 3…

one of the reasons I rate the Giant (cycling mates Wife) rides with us, on one, is that the 5 levels give more options…

cheers

Chris

[MajG]

4 hours ago, ChrisF said:

The different brands have different control setups ....

 

Specialized - 3 lights, ie Eco, Trail, Boost. 

 

Giant - 5 lights, ie Eco, Basic, Active, Sport, Power

 

On the power setting I find the "burst of power" too much in the very technical section, and the rear wheel starts spinning when you need the constant grip.  On the Active (3) setting I have ample assist for 98 % of the climbs on our local trails, AND constant grip from the rear wheel.

 

Remember none of these settings can give you any more than 250W assist ... if you are putting out as little as 100W, then you already get full motor assist on the Basic (2) setting on a Giant ...

 

 

Well worth your time to experiment with the rider app and customising the assist levels ....  I have gone with lower assist levels on the first four lights.  Still plenty assist !!  But also marginally more range.

Valuable input Chris as I wasnt aware of power assist setting actually work as traction assist etc. But guess it makes sense tho.

 Always appreciated reading your detailed feedback!

[ChrisF]

So a slightly different reply to this thread (dont want to start a new thread for a related reply)

 

On Sunday I did my Bellville, Durbanville to Philladelphia coffe ride, on the ebike.

 

Early morning on the way the roads were quiet.  Nice vibe between the few cyclists and runners out there.  On the way back I was just enjoying the scenery, and doing a super slow ride ... until I got to the Adderley turn.

 

Two riders from the Klipheuwel side turned into Adderly about 200m ahead of me ... and I started matching their pace, sort of.

 

Downhill they would pull away from me ... the hardtail spinning out at about 40km/h.  Uphill I could keep a good pace, thanks to the ebike, and would slowly catch them .... just for the gap to stretch on the next downhill.

 

Just after Malanshoogte I caught up to them towards the end of the looong uphill.

 

I realised that passing them would just result in me holding them up on the next downhill (not to mention the fact that I had to WORK to catch up...)

 

The jo-jo continued into Durbanville.  When the first rider turned off into D'Urbanville I passed "Daikin" and gave it my ALL to pace him to the second circle ...

 

 

Moral of the story ..... A good pair of legs on a roadie is still way better than an ebike with 50C tires ....  

 

It was interesting to note the jo-jo effect as each bike played to its strengths along these rolling hills.