Leatt Corporation

[DJuice]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I honestly don’t know what to make of this thread. This is definitely the most quintessentially South African thing I have seen in a long time.

This brand produces really amazing products, priced fairly, that riders from all across the world choose, because it’s a great brand.  

21 May 2008 a payment was made as a capital contribution to the company in exchange for shares.

This capital was put to use to develop and market these amazing products.

With the excellent results the last two years it is not unreasonable expectation from shareholders for a dividend or an opportunity to sell their shares.

Not sure many investors will be satisfied with no return for 13 years.

The company already moved to the US, the shares was issued in Salt Lake City.

Our region had drought for seven years, last weekend past through the Boesmanland, still many farms without rain and veldt.

Farmers spent their last savings on fodder to keep the few remaining livestock alive, this share investment can be used to buy feed, build a new herd, pay for living expenses.

The farming community support many households, sure the taxes paid by the extended farming community exceeds the companies tax portion on the 4% sales in SA.

Great success story, amazing product...hopefully this can be extended to the minority shareholders

[J Wakefield]

2 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I honestly don’t know what to make of this thread. This is definitely the most quintessentially South African thing I have seen in a long time.

This brand produces really amazing products, priced fairly, that riders from all across the world choose, because it’s a great brand. But here we are slagging off at them, making sure everyone remembers that the founder is a good for nothing scoundrel, because 22 years ago he was caught up in some insurance fraud. Got caught out engaging in a practice that was rife across the industry, and still is today, got made an example of, paid back the money, the whole R90k, and his R30k fine, moved on with his life, built this amazing business, that we should want to claim and be proudly South African about. 
 

The riders all over the world using their product couldn’t give a hoot where it’s from, they just care that it works, exactly as advertised. But Saffas are more concerned about that little misstep from 2 decades ago, and slating the man. Why is it so hard for us to celebrate our neighbours success in this country??? 
 

most of you spend your weekends playing with your toys that cost double what he “defrauded” the medical industry in 2000. While the business he built grossed almost $40mil dollars in sales in 2020….. but we can’t let go of the horrendous fraud he commitment a lifetime ago, and paid back. A fraud worth less the price of the bike your going to ride to an absolutely mediocre result this weekend. Give it a break. Why are South Africans incapable of celebrating someone else’s successes. 
 

Until I saw this thread, all I knew about Leatt was they made great products, and they were based in Cape Town, which was a cool anecdote to share with riders from other countries who don’t really even know where South Africa is. 
 

after reading this I’m glad to know they only generate 4% their revenue locally. I hope they also pay little to no tax here and I will fully support them when they eventually shut down their SA based HQ and take all of their business elsewhere. Who would blame them.

 

Just like we now try hard to claim Elon Musk as one of ours. He saw the light, and moved on from this place a long time ago. I don’t blame him. 

Also a very South African thing to be ok with fraud. 

[DonatelloOnPinarello]

11 hours ago, DJuice said:

21 May 2008 a payment was made as a capital contribution to the company in exchange for shares.

This capital was put to use to develop and market these amazing products.

With the excellent results the last two years it is not unreasonable expectation from shareholders for a dividend or an opportunity to sell their shares.

Not sure many investors will be satisfied with no return for 13 years.

The company already moved to the US, the shares was issued in Salt Lake City.

Our region had drought for seven years, last weekend past through the Boesmanland, still many farms without rain and veldt.

Farmers spent their last savings on fodder to keep the few remaining livestock alive, this share investment can be used to buy feed, build a new herd, pay for living expenses.

The farming community support many households, sure the taxes paid by the extended farming community exceeds the companies tax portion on the 4% sales in SA.

Great success story, amazing product...hopefully this can be extended to the minority shareholders

Understandably your situation is somewhat frustrating. But your family members bought OTC shares in Leatt Corp understanding the admin that would be required to trade said shares. You mentioned the dilution in 2012 also not being good for initial shareholders, I beg to differ. If you look at the share price since 2008 initial listing, the share completely tanked, and was worth almost nothing in 2012. The share dilution took place in order to raise capital for growth/phase 2 expansion and the share price has been very gradually rising since then. Without that capital raise, chances are they would have folded, and the shares would be worth nothing now. 
 

The excellent growth in share value has only happened in the past 18 months. Shares were trading under 2USD at the end of 2019. They are now almost worth what they were at the IPO, but some more sustained growth will be required before initial investors could hope to even break even on selling their shares. The current growth is also on the back of the sudden and unexpected boom in the outdoor/action sports scene world wide, and it is not prudent to expect demand to continue growing like this long term, the board members would need to keep this all in mind, before deciding about offering dividends, while looking keeping cash reserves on hand for future growth and development. Another awesome year and no dividend might start raising legitimate questions. But a dividend is never a given, especially not in R&D heavy business.

getting the shares transferred is surely the executor of the estates responsibility? This is something that fidicuiry officers deal with on a daily basis. If the shares are clearly given to the wife as part of the Will, a transfer will need to be affected. If not, the estate should sell the shares at their current value and give her the money. But this is all administrative trouble linked to an estate, which is always tricky. Not really a reflection on the Leatt Corp. Unless you are implying that they are refusing to effect the transfer of title? 

10 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

Also a very South African thing to be ok with fraud. 

I’m sorry. I will go and burn all my Leatt products when I get home tonight in protest of the founders 22 year old transgression, that he repaid, and faced the music for.

If it comes to light that Leatt is a fraud or a front for criminal activity or something, by all means link it to past missteps and tell us all I told you so. But what I see is a good business, built on solid products, that is now experiencing some time in the sun, and I don’t think a mistake made by the founder 22 years ago, and that he faced the music for matters. People make mistakes, if they own up and face the consequences, then It’s what they do next that matters. I think he has done alright. I don’t see how the two are related, or why you felt the need to mention it in the first place.

Edited August 19, 2021 by DonatelloOnPinarello

[DJuice]

5 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

The current growth is also on the back of the sudden and unexpected boom in the outdoor/action sports scene world wide, and it is not prudent to expect demand to continue growing like this long term, the board members would need to keep this all in mind,

Told her last night, the current boom in cycling is not sustainable.

Few articles the last week on Bicycle Insider.

getting the shares transferred is surely the executor of the estates responsibility? 

Correct, the executor unfortunately is no longer in practice, had a stroke. 

I am qualified to assist her.

Unless you are implying that they are refusing to effect the transfer of title? 

Word van bakboord na stuurboord gestuur.

 

[J Wakefield]

14 minutes ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Understandably your situation is somewhat frustrating. But your family members bought OTC shares in Leatt Corp understanding the admin that would be required to trade said shares. You mentioned the dilution in 2012 also not being good for initial shareholders, I beg to differ. If you look at the share price since 2008 initial listing, the share completely tanked, and was worth almost nothing in 2012. The share dilution took place in order to raise capital for growth/phase 2 expansion and the share price has been very gradually rising since then. Without that capital raise, chances are they would have folded, and the shares would be worth nothing now. 
 

The excellent growth in share value has only happened in the past 18 months. Shares were trading under 2USD at the end of 2019. They are now almost worth what they were at the IPO, but some more sustained growth will be required before initial investors could hope to even break even on selling their shares. The current growth is also on the back of the sudden and unexpected boom in the outdoor/action sports scene world wide, and it is not prudent to expect demand to continue growing like this long term, the board members would need to keep this all in mind, before deciding about offering dividends, while looking keeping cash reserves on hand for future growth and development. Another awesome year and no dividend might start raising legitimate questions. But a dividend is never a given, especially not in R&D heavy business.

getting the shares transferred is surely the executor of the estates responsibility? This is something that fidicuiry officers deal with on a daily basis. If the shares are clearly given to the wife as part of the Will, a transfer will need to be affected. If not, the estate should sell the shares at their current value and give her the money. But this is all administrative trouble linked to an estate, which is always tricky. Not really a reflection on the Leatt Corp. Unless you are implying that they are refusing to effect the transfer of title? 

I’m sorry. I will go and burn all my Leatt products when I get home tonight in protest of the founders 22 year old transgression, that he repaid, and faced the music for.

If it comes to light that Leatt is a fraud or a front for criminal activity or something, by all means link it to past missteps and tell us all I told you so. But what I see is a good business, built on solid products, that is now experiencing some time in the sun, and I don’t think a mistake made by the founder 22 years ago, and that he faced the music for matters. People make mistakes, if they own up and face the consequences, then It’s what they do next that matters. I think he has done alright. I don’t see how the two are related, or why you felt the need to mention it in the first place.

Didnt mean to touch a nerve mate. Its only Thursday.

[Duane_Bosch]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

 

I’m sorry. I will go and burn all my Leatt products when I get home tonight in protest of the founders 22 year old transgression, that he repaid, and faced the music for.

 

Why are you so rabidly defending someone who has a criminal record for Fraud? Fraud is Fraud. It's a criminal offence. A proper one. It's not a speeding ticket. The amount doesn't matter and neither does the value of the toys we play with on the weekend. I'm afraid that's a puerile argument. 

The quality of the products produced by the company don't equate to the quality of the man. So don't burn all your Leatt stuff.

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Duane_Bosch

[J Wakefield]

6 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

Why are you so rabidly defending someone who has a criminal record for Fraud? Fraud is Fraud. It's a criminal offence. A proper one. It's not a speeding ticket. The amount doesn't matter and neither does the value of the toys we play with on the weekend. That's a puerile argument. 

The quality of the products produced by the company don't equate to the quality of the man. So don't burn all your Leatt stuff.

 

Yip, this above.

[Shebeen]

14 hours ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

I honestly don’t know what to make of this thread. This is definitely the most quintessentially South African thing I have seen in a long time.

This brand produces really amazing products, priced fairly, that riders from all across the world choose, because it’s a great brand. But here we are slagging off at them, making sure everyone remembers that the founder is a good for nothing scoundrel, because 22 years ago he was caught up in some insurance fraud. Got caught out engaging in a practice that was rife across the industry, and still is today, got made an example of, paid back the money, the whole R90k, and his R30k fine, moved on with his life, built this amazing business, that we should want to claim and be proudly South African about. 
 

The riders all over the world using their product couldn’t give a hoot where it’s from, they just care that it works, exactly as advertised. But Saffas are more concerned about that little misstep from 2 decades ago, and slating the man. Why is it so hard for us to celebrate our neighbours success in this country??? 
 

most of you spend your weekends playing with your toys that cost double what he “defrauded” the medical industry in 2000. While the business he built grossed almost $40mil dollars in sales in 2020….. but we can’t let go of the horrendous fraud he commitment a lifetime ago, and paid back. A fraud worth less the price of the bike your going to ride to an absolutely mediocre result this weekend. Give it a break. Why are South Africans incapable of celebrating someone else’s successes. 
 

Until I saw this thread, all I knew about Leatt was they made great products, and they were based in Cape Town, which was a cool anecdote to share with riders from other countries who don’t really even know where South Africa is. 
 

after reading this I’m glad to know they only generate 4% their revenue locally. I hope they also pay little to no tax here and I will fully support them when they eventually shut down their SA based HQ and take all of their business elsewhere. Who would blame them.

 

Just like we now try hard to claim Elon Musk as one of ours. He saw the light, and moved on from this place a long time ago. I don’t blame him. 

I can side with this.

I didn't know the fraud history, and while it raises an eyebrow for me I think he's done the punishment for that. A shady past will hang around a doc forever, as this thread will attest.

Reading between the lines, it seems the company really started in his garage as he had lost his practice - I can applaud people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.

I have no issue with the products being manufactured in china. like the computer i'm typing this on and the bike i ride it is the industry standard. at least the office is nice and close to contermans.

 

 

 

  

[Falling Over]

12 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

Also a very South African thing to be ok with fraud. 

Indeed. I would love to know how many Hubbers still remember (or care) about the collusion that went on some years ago between many of the local bike shops. It all just conveniently became a distant memory.

I am happy for Leatt's success. I enjoy their products, and will continue using them over other brands. Unfortunately their pricing is no longer that different from the competitors, and seems to have gone up a bit in 2021.

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, DonatelloOnPinarello said:

Understandably your situation is somewhat frustrating. But your family members bought OTC shares in Leatt Corp understanding the admin that would be required to trade said shares. You mentioned the dilution in 2012 also not being good for initial shareholders, I beg to differ. If you look at the share price since 2008 initial listing, the share completely tanked, and was worth almost nothing in 2012. The share dilution took place in order to raise capital for growth/phase 2 expansion and the share price has been very gradually rising since then. Without that capital raise, chances are they would have folded, and the shares would be worth nothing now. 
 

The excellent growth in share value has only happened in the past 18 months. Shares were trading under 2USD at the end of 2019. They are now almost worth what they were at the IPO, but some more sustained growth will be required before initial investors could hope to even break even on selling their shares. The current growth is also on the back of the sudden and unexpected boom in the outdoor/action sports scene world wide, and it is not prudent to expect demand to continue growing like this long term, the board members would need to keep this all in mind, before deciding about offering dividends, while looking keeping cash reserves on hand for future growth and development. Another awesome year and no dividend might start raising legitimate questions. But a dividend is never a given, especially not in R&D heavy business.

getting the shares transferred is surely the executor of the estates responsibility? This is something that fidicuiry officers deal with on a daily basis. If the shares are clearly given to the wife as part of the Will, a transfer will need to be affected. If not, the estate should sell the shares at their current value and give her the money. But this is all administrative trouble linked to an estate, which is always tricky. Not really a reflection on the Leatt Corp. Unless you are implying that they are refusing to effect the transfer of title? 

I’m sorry. I will go and burn all my Leatt products when I get home tonight in protest of the founders 22 year old transgression, that he repaid, and faced the music for.

If it comes to light that Leatt is a fraud or a front for criminal activity or something, by all means link it to past missteps and tell us all I told you so. But what I see is a good business, built on solid products, that is now experiencing some time in the sun, and I don’t think a mistake made by the founder 22 years ago, and that he faced the music for matters. People make mistakes, if they own up and face the consequences, then It’s what they do next that matters. I think he has done alright. I don’t see how the two are related, or why you felt the need to mention it in the first place.

brilliant post

[DieselnDust]

30 minutes ago, Falling Over said:

Indeed. I would love to know how many Hubbers still remember (or care) about the collusion that went on some years ago between many of the local bike shops. It all just conveniently became a distant memory.

I am happy for Leatt's success. I enjoy their products, and will continue using them over other brands. Unfortunately their pricing is no longer that different from the competitors, and seems to have gone up a bit in 2021.

That collusion still goes on today. The problem with the outcome of that incident is the instigators got off scott free and the two entities with the bigest turnover paid the fines and took the rap for an industry. They're all still chummie chummie...

Dr.Leatt paid his price for his sin atoned and move on. Maybe there's a really positive story here.

PS: YChecking in with some peeps in the medical industry, it appears many many doctors were doing what Leatt got nailed for so indeed a Robin Hood story. What I'd like to understand is why is this being raised now? What is the game at play here?

[Shebeen]

21 minutes ago, Falling Over said:

Indeed. I would love to know how many Hubbers still remember (or care) about the collusion that went on some years ago between many of the local bike shops. It all just conveniently became a distant memory.

I am happy for Leatt's success. I enjoy their products, and will continue using them over other brands. Unfortunately their pricing is no longer that different from the competitors, and seems to have gone up a bit in 2021.

You mean the where cyclelab and another shop who has since shut organised a meeting to set prices? it is still on the web.

 

 

[amac]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

brilliant post

Not sure that this is correct. From my read of the thread, it seems that the Leatt company was once South African. And some SA investors

 bought shares. Now the company is a US company with shares trading OTC in America. It has a research department in Cape Town. And selling / transferring  shares  is a nightmare.

[Falling Over]

18 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

You mean the where cyclelab and another shop who has since shut organised a meeting to set prices? it is still on the web.

Multiple shops & distributors. Not just those two you mentioned.

 

55 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Dr.Leatt paid his price for his sin atoned and move on. Maybe there's a really positive story here.

PS: YChecking in with some peeps in the medical industry, it appears many many doctors were doing what Leatt got nailed for so indeed a Robin Hood story. What I'd like to understand is why is this being raised now? What is the game at play here?

Honestly, when I read what he did and why, I did not really think much of it.  It does not change my opinion about him or the company at all. It was 20 years ago, and he paid his dues, and I am perfectly ok with that. I don't know why we South Africans like to dismiss other's success for some reason, almost like we can not stand other's being successful.

 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, amac said:

Not sure that this is correct. From my read of the thread, it seems that the Leatt company was once South African. And some SA investors

 bought shares. Now the company is a US company with shares trading OTC in America. It has a research department in Cape Town. And selling / transferring  shares  is a nightmare.

Which is abnormal how? The USA is far more beneficial to a small company attracting investors than RSA where you have to sell your soul to a bank or the government at high interest. Maybe more entrepreneurs would stay in SA if the government didn't try to suppress that entrepreneurship through heavy taxation. Maybe the best way to remain above board and grow without resorting to South African tax evasion practices was to move the shareholding abroad. SASOL made the same call years ago. If they remained with mostly SA shareholding they wouldn't be what they are today

Sometimes good business decisions are just that.

[amac]

3 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

That collusion still goes on today. The problem with the outcome of that incident is the instigators got off scott free and the two entities with the bigest turnover paid the fines and took the rap for an industry. They're all still chummie chummie...

Dr.Leatt paid his price for his sin atoned and move on. Maybe there's a really positive story here.

PS: YChecking in with some peeps in the medical industry, it appears many many doctors were doing what Leatt got nailed for so indeed a Robin Hood story. What I'd like to understand is why is this being raised now? What is the game at play here?

The point is it is not a South African company and it is not listed. It trades over the counter and if the complaint is legitimate the transfer secretary is extremely inefficient.