Tour de France 2022

[Fred van Vlaanderen]

6 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

This is the nature of sprinting. It’s not for the feint hearted. There’s bumping and barging all the way to the line. As long as you’re not blatantly head butting or using your hands to push other riders you’re within guidelines. 

True

[Gnarly]

12 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

I suppose this is why Fabio got the call from the DS.

He got a call? 🤔 or did he just read it on social media? 

[splat]

12 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

This is the nature of sprinting. It’s not for the feint hearted. There’s bumping and barging all the way to the line. As long as you’re not blatantly head butting or using your hands to push other riders you’re within guidelines. 

I know that's how sprinting goes, but every now and again it ends badly and someone ends up on the ground or in the barriers (recent notable examples: Sagan v Cavendish or Groenewegen v Jakobsen).
i.e. it's fine as long as no one crashes as a result of the bumping and barging.

So anyway, it was ballsy, no one hit the deck and it worked well for him.
Some mad skillz!
Quite impressive when you watch it again and break it down into smaller bits:

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/07/peter-sagans-still-got-it-can-he-use-it/

Edited July 3, 2022 by splat

[Jewbacca]

1 minute ago, splat said:

I know that's how sprinting goes, but every now and again it ends badly and someone ends up on the ground or in the barriers (recent notable examples: Sagan v Cavendish or Groenewegen v Jakobsen).
i.e. it's fine as long as no one crashes as a result of the bumping and barging.

Contact with other riders and the whole changing lines thing are grey areas.

Purposefully making contact with another rider while changing lines can result in DQ or go completely unpunished/unmentioned.

Sagan was kicked from the race for being a bit too liberal with the above in 2017, it's nothing new. But, as with most things, after the Fabio Jakobsen incident, things flared up only to die down again with no changes.

Rider safety vs tradition vs rewriting the rules effectively vs 'it's always been like that' in a hugely 'traditionally obsessed' sport doesn't make for an appeasing cocktail. 

 

[MarcelGriff]

Novice TDF watcher here and lots to learn. Can someone please explain the decision behind the following event.

All the riders in the last pileup before the finish was given the same time as the peloton, whether they fell or was just held up. This being in a race where time is used to decide the overall winner. My question is why do they get the same time if they did not finish with the bunch?

I understand the crash might not be the riders direct fault, but did he not choose to ride at that position, thus should accept the good ( nice drafting in the headwind) and the bad ( a blockage in the road) that comes with the position where his riding? Is that not why teams fight for position early on, to try and avoid such problems at the finish? Is this not the nature of sports/luck?

In light of the crash before the bridge, the EF Education guys had to work very hard, dropped riders from the peloton to go get their team back to the main group. Together as a team they recovered from a bad situation, knowing their main rider's GC hopes would be gone if they did not get back to the bunch even if this is only stage 2 of a long multi stage race.

Should this not be the same philosophy for the crash before the finish? Find your team leader get him up and riding asap and then the rest can follow as they only support their main rider?

 

[devocean]

7 minutes ago, MarcelGriff said:

Novice TDF watcher here and lots to learn. Can someone please explain the decision behind the following event.

All the riders in the last pileup before the finish was given the same time as the peloton, whether they fell or was just held up. This being in a race where time is used to decide the overall winner. My question is why do they get the same time if they did not finish with the bunch?

I understand the crash might not be the riders direct fault, but did he not choose to ride at that position, thus should accept the good ( nice drafting in the headwind) and the bad ( a blockage in the road) that comes with the position where his riding? Is that not why teams fight for position early on, to try and avoid such problems at the finish? Is this not the nature of sports/luck?

In light of the crash before the bridge, the EF Education guys had to work very hard, dropped riders from the peloton to go get their team back to the main group. Together as a team they recovered from a bad situation, knowing their main rider's GC hopes would be gone if they did not get back to the bunch even if this is only stage 2 of a long multi stage race.

Should this not be the same philosophy for the crash before the finish? Find your team leader get him up and riding asap and then the rest can follow as they only support their main rider?

 

If there's a crash within 3km of the finish line, all riders caught up in the crash get the same time as peleton

Edited July 3, 2022 by devocean

[SwissVan]

16 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

I suppose this is why Fabio got the call from the DS.

"I'm an old, wise man and the winner is always right, so for the moment I am right," Lefevere told Cyclingnews in Nyborg.

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, MarcelGriff said:

Novice TDF watcher here and lots to learn. Can someone please explain the decision behind the following event.

All the riders in the last pileup before the finish was given the same time as the peloton, whether they fell or was just held up. This being in a race where time is used to decide the overall winner. My question is why do they get the same time if they did not finish with the bunch?

I understand the crash might not be the riders direct fault, but did he not choose to ride at that position, thus should accept the good ( nice drafting in the headwind) and the bad ( a blockage in the road) that comes with the position where his riding? Is that not why teams fight for position early on, to try and avoid such problems at the finish? Is this not the nature of sports/luck?

In light of the crash before the bridge, the EF Education guys had to work very hard, dropped riders from the peloton to go get their team back to the main group. Together as a team they recovered from a bad situation, knowing their main rider's GC hopes would be gone if they did not get back to the bunch even if this is only stage 2 of a long multi stage race.

Should this not be the same philosophy for the crash before the finish? Find your team leader get him up and riding asap and then the rest can follow as they only support their main rider?

Imagine it was based on the time each rider crossed the line? You’d have everyone fighting for a small space.

In simple terms, the stage finish line is 3Km from the finish, on certain stages only, like yesterday. This allows the sprinters (green jersey) to have a go for the finish while the GC favorites (yellow and white) don’t need to get in their way. There are 21 stages to gain/lose time, and the finish line on fast (speed) finishes is not the place.
 

On mountain finishes, it’s the actual line and any gaps of greater than 1s results in time loses

Edited July 3, 2022 by Frosty

['Dale]

14 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

This is the nature of sprinting. It’s not for the feint hearted. There’s bumping and barging all the way to the line. As long as you’re not blatantly head butting or using your hands or elbows to push other riders you’re within guidelines. 

Ja nee. It was a fair contest for the lane behind Wout's wheel. What is remarkable was that Fabio has the courage, as a Tour de France rookie and 18 month after his high-speed crash into the barriers. At 65 km/h, doing the shoulder jive, jissis!

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Contact with other riders and the whole changing lines thing are grey areas.

Purposefully making contact with another rider while changing lines can result in DQ or go completely unpunished/unmentioned.

Sagan was kicked from the race for being a bit too liberal with the above in 2017, it's nothing new. But, as with most things, after the Fabio Jakobsen incident, things flared up only to die down again with no changes.

Rider safety vs tradition vs rewriting the rules effectively vs 'it's always been like that' in a hugely 'traditionally obsessed' sport doesn't make for an appeasing cocktail. 

 

 

Sagan was kicked from the race because Cav crashed, the TDD4Q DS campaigned heavily to have him DQ'd and thrown out of the race. He was exonerated at the appeal hearing in December 2017 after the video evidence  was examined. In fact most armchair experts made the right call moments after the accident happened. Essentially Cav hooked Sagan's right arm and crashed himself out of the race while riding into a gap that was closing. It had nothing to do with unsportsmanlike behaviour.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2017/12/05/sagan-cleared-by-uci-over-tour-de-france-disqualification/108325692/

There are other incidents where Sagan has had to apologise e.g. groping a podium lady's bottom, and some incident with Monaco Police when he resisted arrest for breaking Covid Curfew. These had nothing to do with Sprinting

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Imagine it was based on the time each rider crossed the line? You’d have everyone fighting for a small space.

In simple terms, the stage finish line is 3Km from the finish, on certain stages only, like yesterday. This allows the sprinters (green jersey) to have a go for the finish while the GC favorites (yellow and white) don’t need to get in their way. There are 21 stages to gain/lose time, and the finish line on fast (speed) finishes is not the place.
 

On mountain finishes, it’s the actual line and any gaps of greater than 1s results in time loses

I would prefer the time is taken at the line. GC contenders should have the necessary skill to position themselves in the bunch or just let it go in the last 2km and take the 20second time loss. They will regain it in the mountains. 

Its for all these soft rule changes that the modern racers can't be compared with the likes or Hinault, Merckx, LeMond, Indurain or even Pharmstrong. These guys had to race all the way to the line. In reality the Green Jersey winner is the real winner as they're the only riders who's actual race time is taken over the full course

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, splat said:

I know that's how sprinting goes, but every now and again it ends badly and someone ends up on the ground or in the barriers (recent notable examples: Sagan v Cavendish or Groenewegen v Jakobsen).
i.e. it's fine as long as no one crashes as a result of the bumping and barging.

So anyway, it was ballsy, no one hit the deck and it worked well for him.
Some mad skillz!
Quite impressive when you watch it again and break it down into smaller bits:

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/07/peter-sagans-still-got-it-can-he-use-it/

Sure there's always going to be situations where the line is crossed (pun intended)

SAgan vs CAvendsh 2017, that mater is resolved with Sagan's DQ overturned and apology issued by the UCI and ASO.

The other one was blantantly poor sportsmanship. Groenewegen just pushed Jakobsen into the barrier. He got off lightly. Jakobsen didn't.

There's a very good reason I decided to not focus on being a sprinter. Every sprint has an outcome defined by a very very thin line

[Thomo]

19 hours ago, Jbr said:

Pogi must be loving these Pirellis 😜😜

Some specials on Pirelli this morning.

Anybody know which model it is that they're riding.?

Was keen to try the Race but maybe better off sticking with the workhorse Cinturato. 🙈

['Dale]

Gotta love the rider's (pilot's) nick name all over these Princeton trivia-spokes, aptly named Mach 7580 TS.

Meanwhile, Valverde is in hospital for monitoring after him and his teammates were in a road rage incident. He appears to be okay after the drivers reversed into them deliberately after passing them too closely. Eish.

And, at the Giro d'Italia Donne, Marianne Vos takes another victory - record 33 or 31st, thereabouts in this stage race. Remarkable.

 

[Jewbacca]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

 

Sagan was kicked from the race because Cav crashed, the TDD4Q DS campaigned heavily to have him DQ'd and thrown out of the race. He was exonerated at the appeal hearing in December 2017 after the video evidence  was examined. In fact most armchair experts made the right call moments after the accident happened. Essentially Cav hooked Sagan's right arm and crashed himself out of the race while riding into a gap that was closing. It had nothing to do with unsportsmanlike behaviour.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2017/12/05/sagan-cleared-by-uci-over-tour-de-france-disqualification/108325692/

There are other incidents where Sagan has had to apologise e.g. groping a podium lady's bottom, and some incident with Monaco Police when he resisted arrest for breaking Covid Curfew. These had nothing to do with Sprinting

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-fined-for-intimidation-in-giro-ditalia-stage-18/

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-i-didnt-think-it-was-a-dangerous-move/

2 other times Sagan has been fined or reprimanded for less than perfect/safe/constructive conduct while riding.. There are more

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I would prefer the time is taken at the line. GC contenders should have the necessary skill to position themselves in the bunch or just let it go in the last 2km and take the 20second time loss. They will regain it in the mountains. 

Its for all these soft rule changes that the modern racers can't be compared with the likes or Hinault, Merckx, LeMond, Indurain or even Pharmstrong. These guys had to race all the way to the line. In reality the Green Jersey winner is the real winner as they're the only riders who's actual race time is taken over the full course

Explains why Wout is in yellow