Bike Hub Pay

[The Ouzo]

2 minutes ago, ConradS said:

My point exactly. This thread makes it seem like "no reason not to use the facility" where in reality it is only a shift of risk from one area to another. If the seller knows that the items was fairly represented and shipped then they may not want to take the risk increase which is a fair stance. This thread has made it seem like a seller avoiding the facility automatically has something to hide. That is what I am trying to address. 

If someone on here that doesnt have any reviews or has dodgy reviews is selling something and does not want to use BHP, as a buyer I would not trust them. 

You have painted a scenario where you dont trust the buyer, in my view, most of the time its the seller that is trying to scam buyers, for this BHP is a safety net.

[ConradS]

1 minute ago, ouzo said:

If someone on here that doesnt have any reviews or has dodgy reviews is selling something and does not want to use BHP, as a buyer I would not trust them. 

You have painted a scenario where you dont trust the buyer, in my view, most of the time its the seller that is trying to scam buyers, for this BHP is a safety net.

Have you heard of the prevalent "EFT and send my driver" scam? Buyers are just as often the scammers. Both parties have reason to distrust. 

[Trashy]

16 minutes ago, ConradS said:

Have you heard of the prevalent "EFT and send my driver" scam? Buyers are just as often the scammers. Both parties have reason to distrust. 

Your argument above just shows that BHP benefits the seller then.

 

As I previously linked, the BHP terms do not automatically side with the buyer in the event of a dispute. They certainly provide more protection for both parties then a transaction without it.

 

Your argument against using it holds little water IMO. How often have you had a buyer claim that the item you sold them was misrepresented? If not often, then what's the issue?

If it happens often then perhaps the issue isn't the buyers...

[shaper]

7 minutes ago, Trashy said:

Your argument above just shows that BHP benefits the seller then.

 

As I previously linked, the BHP terms do not automatically side with the buyer in the event of a dispute. They certainly provide more protection for both parties then a transaction without it.

 

Your argument against using it holds little water IMO. How often have you had a buyer claim that the item you sold them was misrepresented? If not often, then what's the issue?

If it happens often then perhaps the issue isn't the buyers...

Personally have bought and sold for many years am not a fan on BHP either.

A situation I had is that I sold a set of wheels via BHP.  The buyer received the wheels as I organised the courier so had tracking to prove it.  The seller is meant to notify BHP of having received the wheels and is happy with them so that the money could be released to me as the seller.  After 3 days still waiting, I had to contact admin to try to resolve.  In which case admin had to contact the buyer because they were too lazy or enjoying my wheels. 

The system is not perfect and as Conrad says, you work to get a good rating and all of a sudden you are now sending things without receipt of money and the buyer has the goods and potential to make that deal go sour through no fault of your own and you are left holding nothing potentially.  Not a risk I like to entertain.

[TheoG]

1 hour ago, ConradS said:

Have you heard of the prevalent "EFT and send my driver" scam? Buyers are just as often the scammers. Both parties have reason to distrust. 

All your points above are very valid.  However, maybe not perfect and someone will ALWAYS be at risk, BHP does reduce the risk on both sides significantly and that is good enough for me.

One still have to use you own GV (gesonde verstand) to decide if you want to deal with a certain individual or not.

[jcza]

Where is Rouxtjie when you need him? 

[ConradS]

47 minutes ago, Trashy said:

Your argument above just shows that BHP benefits the seller then.

 

As I previously linked, the BHP terms do not automatically side with the buyer in the event of a dispute. They certainly provide more protection for both parties then a transaction without it.

 

Your argument against using it holds little water IMO. How often have you had a buyer claim that the item you sold them was misrepresented? If not often, then what's the issue?

If it happens often then perhaps the issue isn't the buyers...

I will admit that my first statement was unclear. I am not saying that Bikehub automatically sides with the buyer, I meant that that could be the outcome of the dispute in my scenario which leaves me down a crank. Obviously Bikehub will investigate (I made it clear that I have great respect for their approach to issues). In the stated scenario, Bikehub will find themselves in a very difficult situation. In that dispute, the seller who did nothing wrong now has a risk of loosing out big. That is my point. There is reason for a seller not to want to use the facility in an attempt to reduce his own risk. IMO it is very similar to a seller demanding cash for the item as it reduces the risk of fake EFT. The buyer now has more risk as they need to withdraw cash and could potentially be mugged. The seller reduces their risk by increasing risk to buyer and no one will call the seller unreasonable for demanding cash in the world that we live in. 

Yes, I have never had a buyer claim misrepresented item shipped but that's because there was little incentive. A scammer would have little to gain without the idea of a refund initiated by a middleman. 

I happen to have a damaged and useless XT M785 crank. Will you sell me a working one through Bikehub pay and let me illustrate my point?

Any reasonable person would understand my point here. Bikehub pay is not without merit but the idea that a seller not wanting to risk the above scenario making them automatically untrustworthy is absurd. My grievance is not with the facility itself, it is with this notion that anyone not wanting to use it should immediately be avoided.

[ConradS]

14 minutes ago, TheoG said:

All your points above are very valid.  However, maybe not perfect and someone will ALWAYS be at risk, BHP does reduce the risk on both sides significantly and that is good enough for me.

One still have to use you own GV (gesonde verstand) to decide if you want to deal with a certain individual or not.

There will always be risk. Including the risk of wrecking your car on the way to Postnet when shipping the item. All manner of risk yes. But if I sell an item via the old school EFT approach that was the norm for many years, there is no risk of me loosing the money if I only ship when I have the funds. In which way will Bikehub pay reduce my risk? (if you say that it reduces risk for both parties)

I get  that it reduces the EFT scam risk but so does waiting for clearance from my bank. How else does it reduce my risk? I honestly am open to hearing the argument for this. What am I missing?

[RobbyB]

Conrad, what if you buy something (on BikeHub), pay into the sellers account, it clears and he sends you a brick and then you cant get hold of him and he deletes his account. Where do you stand on this idea?

[RobbyB]

Many are talking about a potential where something can go wrong but no one has given any real evidence of the system having not worked. No system is perfect by this one seems to work 99,9% of the time (How many actual complaints have been received about it not working).

The only problem I see is that the seller takes on the responsibility of getting the product to the buyer. As mentioned previously by a Hubber, if the truck is hi-jacked or the postage depot is burnt down then the buyer gets his money back and the seller loses out (but how many times will this happen?). The only way around this is getting insurance on the package.

Apart from that and the inherent delays (of a few days) in the system it works very well (I have used it once).  

Some also balk at the extra expense (inherent Fee) and combining this with the courier fee turn many away from using it.
 

 

[Chadvdw67]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:28 PM, Karlboi16 said:

Amazing service, I was buying a R25000 bike and it burnt down in a riot (in shipping) and bike hub payed it all back in less than 24 hours

I also very curious to know what happened to the seller in this instance? Yes it is fantastic that the buyer got his money back, but now the seller sits with no bike and no money, yet he did hold up his end of the deal and sent the bike, in fact he will be down even further having had to pay the courier fee, and every time I have sent a bike with a courier, they tend to state, in small lettering somewhere, that there is no insurance on the parcel, so what happens in a case like this?

[RobbyB]

12 minutes ago, Chadvdw67 said:

I also very curious to know what happened to the seller in this instance? Yes it is fantastic that the buyer got his money back, but now the seller sits with no bike and no money, yet he did hold up his end of the deal and sent the bike, in fact he will be down even further having had to pay the courier fee, and every time I have sent a bike with a courier, they tend to state, in small lettering somewhere, that there is no insurance on the parcel, so what happens in a case like this?

 (Surely the seller will add the courier fee to the price. I'm not sure which courier company offers insurance)

I once drove up to Joeys (from Durbs) to suss out a bike and purchase it. If the bike is worth it then extreme measures might be necessary.

[Chadvdw67]

2 minutes ago, RobbyB said:

 (Surely the seller will add the courier fee to the price. I'm not sure which courier company offers insurance)

I once drove up to Joeys (from Durbs) to suss out a bike and purchase it. If the bike is worth it then extreme measures might be necessary.

Ok great, we add the courier fee the price, all is fantastic, the buyer is still paying via BHP, when the courier truck gets burnt, the buyer does not get his bike, BHP pays him his money back, including the courier fee, the seller is now sitting at a total loss though, including the courier fee...

 

The only fair way to deal with a situation like that is to make the buyer arrange the courier to collect, the onus then falls on him to make sure if the courier insures that shipment, if the seller has proof that he has sent the bike with courier and that an incident has taken place where there is a total loss of the item, which the courier would be able to provide, then he should get payed, and the buyer should then get payed out by the couriers insurance, and if the buyer didnt make sure to insure it, well then unfortunately it would be his problem to deal with.

 

This scenario may seem very far fetched and unlikely to happen, but as can be seen, it can happen, and has happened...

[RobbyB]

5 minutes ago, Chadvdw67 said:

The only fair way to deal with a situation like that is to make the buyer arrange the courier to collect, the onus then falls on him to make sure if the courier insures that shipment, if the seller has proof that he has sent the bike with courier and that an incident has taken place where there is a total loss of the item, which the courier would be able to provide, then he should get payed, and the buyer should then get payed out by the couriers insurance, and if the buyer didnt make sure to insure it, well then unfortunately it would be his problem to deal with.

I fully agree with you. The buyer then arranges the courier and takes any consequences of no delivery. Nice solution. Maybe BHP needs to incorporate this idea.

Discussion does leads to solutions...

Edited February 7, 2022 by RobbyB
Added info...

[Karlhub]

3 hours ago, Chadvdw67 said:

Ok great, we add the courier fee the price, all is fantastic, the buyer is still paying via BHP, when the courier truck gets burnt, the buyer does not get his bike, BHP pays him his money back, including the courier fee, the seller is now sitting at a total loss though, including the courier fee...

 

The only fair way to deal with a situation like that is to make the buyer arrange the courier to collect, the onus then falls on him to make sure if the courier insures that shipment, if the seller has proof that he has sent the bike with courier and that an incident has taken place where there is a total loss of the item, which the courier would be able to provide, then he should get payed, and the buyer should then get payed out by the couriers insurance, and if the buyer didnt make sure to insure it, well then unfortunately it would be his problem to deal with.

 

This scenario may seem very far fetched and unlikely to happen, but as can be seen, it can happen, and has happened...

 

3 hours ago, RobbyB said:

 (Surely the seller will add the courier fee to the price. I'm not sure which courier company offers insurance)

I once drove up to Joeys (from Durbs) to suss out a bike and purchase it. If the bike is worth it then extreme measures might be necessary.

 

3 hours ago, Chadvdw67 said:

I also very curious to know what happened to the seller in this instance? Yes it is fantastic that the buyer got his money back, but now the seller sits with no bike and no money, yet he did hold up his end of the deal and sent the bike, in fact he will be down even further having had to pay the courier fee, and every time I have sent a bike with a courier, they tend to state, in small lettering somewhere, that there is no insurance on the parcel, so what happens in a case like this?

Yes I got my money back as the buyer, seller is fighting the courier with insurance to get his money back 

[Jewbacca]

As a side, you guys do know that the project is part of a phased approach and a BH courier service etc is all part of the proposed service.

It has been documented..... Just saying

The more you guys use bikehub pay, the sooner the rest of the phases can be rolled out.