Consumer rights & recourse with large global corporates?

[BigDL]

10 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

As consumers we certainly are not vocal enough and I agree with many of yr sentiments. It’s astounding what I see ppl accept in the heat of the moment where desire over rides any rationality. 
 

and would be annoyed too in yr shoes. That same Garmin has a 2 year warranty here. And when forking out top dollar for a device you have certain expectations and that should at a minimum be that the device will last you in excess of 2 years. Many of the posters here have expressed just that. My F6 now is now 30 months old and functions perfectly, even the battery still holds charge at pretty much the same rate it did when new. 
 

your experience should be the same 

Also, living over here, you have proper protection as a consumer 

[Mongoose!]

14 hours ago, MORNE said:

Casio should make a G-shock type sports/gps watch imo. They will ruin the competition lol. 
 

 

 

Casio G-Shock Move (2020) GBD-H1000 Smart Fitness Sports Watch - Any Good? - Bing video

 

 

[Limitseeker]

20 hours ago, madmarc said:

So this is an interesting discussion on Warranty policies - I work for an OEM and our warranty policy and what we do after products are out of warranty has also left a few customers irritated. The bottom line is, once the product is out of the warranty period, then legally the OEM has not further obligation in terms of cost.

On our products, if it fails after warranty we look at each individual case and a decision is taken - Most time we will not cover the repair 100% but we offer some type of restitution or goodwill like 50% on parts and 100% on labor excl lubricant. - In almost all the cases the customer is still not happy using the reasoning that the failure is not supposed to happen in the short life of the product, and if the OEM is willing to contribute to the repair in the form of goodwill then they are admitting liability and should repair 100% at their cost. So it always turns into a sh@tshow and normally we end up losing the customer to our competition, of course until he has the same issue with their product and realizes we weren't being that unreasonable after all. 

In my view OEM should never offer a goodwill gesture - many do this for customer retention, which in a lot of cases does work but in a lot of cases it doesn't. We find a lot of customers opt for 3rd party repair which is almost always cheaper than an OEM repair.

Where Garmin are basically charging the OP 4K for a battery replacement is just stupid money - But expected from an OEM who don't sell spare parts for their products.

On Ifixit the Fenix battery replacement is listed as Easy under difficulty and takes 30 min - In the comments section people are saying they paid 15 pound for a battery, this is why I say 4k is just stupid.

If it was my watch and Garmin don't improve the offer i would replace the battery myself or find someone in the repair game to do it 

Based on my personal experience, having been in a similar situation as the OP, I am pretty sure the R4k is not just a battery replacement. The battery might be the initial cause of the fault, but as he himself said the entire unit is dead now. Garmin will be replacing the entire unit. Basically a brand new watch (the internals at least), all that remains of the original watch is your case and strap. I don’t think it’s too bad a deal in that case. 
 

I do think the warranty after repair should be more than 90 days though.

 

You could order a battery off eBay and have the local Pakistani shop replace the battery, but it might or might not solve the problem, and I would never trust the waterproof seal of the unit again.

13 hours ago, Shebeen said:

Holy crapamoly.

I'm not in the market for a bleeding edge sports watch but am genuinely interested in what hardware this device could possibly have to justify that.

This I can’t agree with more. The pricing has gotten absolutely mental. There is no way to justify that price. But it’s the same as a top end smartphone, or a R200k+ bike. They sell it for what they know the market is willing to pay

[BrentCGP]

On 2/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, Shebeen said:

Holy crapamoly.

I'm not in the market for a bleeding edge sports watch but am genuinely interested in what hardware this device could possibly have to justify that.

MSRP of Fenix 5 when it came out, 599 USD, latest 7, 799 USD. Don't blame Garmin for South Africas useless economic situation and a failing state with a rand dollar that's only going to get worse. The fenix 8 will be R25k, the Fenix 9 will be R30k. Get used it. A cellphone is already at the R40k mark. It's not corporate greed. Is 3rd world economies that are falling behind. 

[Vetplant]

7 hours ago, BrentCGP said:

MSRP of Fenix 5 when it came out, 599 USD, latest 7, 799 USD. Don't blame Garmin for South Africas useless economic situation and a failing state with a rand dollar that's only going to get worse. The fenix 8 will be R25k, the Fenix 9 will be R30k. Get used it. A cellphone is already at the R40k mark. It's not corporate greed. Is 3rd world economies that are falling behind. 

I agree somewhat on our Rand depreciation playing a part, but talking about R40k phones, this phone is also good enough to satisfy most of your Smartphone needs, for R4999.

https://www.takealot.com/xiaomi-redmi-note-10s-128gb-onyx-grey/PLID72926997

The Fenix 3 was a nice sweet spot of leading-functionality and price, but the current Fenix pricing is pushing it out to elite hardware. Which seems to be mirroring what is taking place in the smartphone space too. Might be a good time to rethink what we really need in terms of hardware

I think a large portion of the crowd that wore the Fenix 3 will be happy with the functionality of the ForeRunner745, at R6999.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-comparison-calculator?type=watch&ids=132247%2C40806%2C117382#results

 

[ChrisF]

13 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

I agree somewhat on our Rand depreciation playing a part, but talking about R40k phones, this phone is also good enough to satisfy most of your Smartphone needs, for R4999.

......   I think a large portion of the crowd that wore the Fenix 3 will be happy with the functionality of the ForeRunner745, at R6999.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-comparison-calculator?type=watch&ids=132247%2C40806%2C117382#results

 

 

I am in the process of renewing my cell contract ..... WOW !!  This industry is losing the plot with their pricing !!  Shortage of chips, supply-and-demand and all those excuses only goes so far ....

 

Few years back videos comparing phones actually highlighted functional differences between models, and you knew "what" you got extra for the money.  Now 80% of the videos relates to esthetics, battery size and then harps on about the cameras ....

 

Using GSMARENA compare your old phone to the current crop .... price trippled, hardly any real extra functionality.

 

 

BACK TO GARMIN WATCHES -

Even the lowly VivoActive 4 has more than enough functionality for 90% of the users.  Those that actually USE the extra long battery life for Ironman and power meters, sure this small group needs something higher up the range.

 

 

aaaaag what the heck ..... boring facts aside, those that can afford it, keeps the economy and development ticking over.  Thanks 

[shaper]

28 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

I agree somewhat on our Rand depreciation playing a part, but talking about R40k phones, this phone is also good enough to satisfy most of your Smartphone needs, for R4999.

https://www.takealot.com/xiaomi-redmi-note-10s-128gb-onyx-grey/PLID72926997

The Fenix 3 was a nice sweet spot of leading-functionality and price, but the current Fenix pricing is pushing it out to elite hardware. Which seems to be mirroring what is taking place in the smartphone space too. Might be a good time to rethink what we really need in terms of hardware

I think a large portion of the crowd that wore the Fenix 3 will be happy with the functionality of the ForeRunner745, at R6999.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-comparison-calculator?type=watch&ids=132247%2C40806%2C117382#results

 

Personally if I was moving from the Fenix 3, I would look at the Instinct 2 with 30hr GPS battery and now also has triathlon function and 90% of what the Fenix 7 has.  There is a solar version too.  Price wise is similar to Forerunner 745 and even cheaper in some instances.

https://www.garmin.com/en-ZA/p/775421/pn/010-02626-00#specs

[jcza]

9 hours ago, BrentCGP said:

MSRP of Fenix 5 when it came out, 599 USD, latest 7, 799 USD. Don't blame Garmin for South Africas useless economic situation and a failing state with a rand dollar that's only going to get worse. The fenix 8 will be R25k, the Fenix 9 will be R30k. Get used it. A cellphone is already at the R40k mark. It's not corporate greed. Is 3rd world economies that are falling behind. 

ZAR/USD is the same as it was in Dec 2015. 

[Vetplant]

16 minutes ago, jcza said:

ZAR/USD is the same as it was in Dec 2015. 

Truth. It has drifted up and down since then, but stayed mostly in the same band, except for some exceptional instances. (Des comes to mind)

[BrentCGP]

3 hours ago, jcza said:

ZAR/USD is the same as it was in Dec 2015. 

And you forgot to take the inflation differential between the two economies into account. Why I said the the dire economy of SA as a whole. This fluctuation is priced in. Shipping goods here has become a nightmare as we all know. Taxes. Distribution costs. Insurance. Small market. A myriad of other reasons why things just cost more here. I really think it's only going to get worse. Luckily I earn USD and packing my bags again to leave in March. So I don't feel much for Randelas. One thing for sure is my fenix 5 is still running perfectly and I have no intention to replace it till it's Dead.

My phone cost me R3500 in Bahrain 2 years ago, same phone on takealot today is R8000. Electronics in SA have been a joke for a long time already. I'm not one to get dragged into the latest greatest.

Edited February 10, 2022 by BrentCGP

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, shaper said:

Personally if I was moving from the Fenix 3, I would look at the Instinct 2 with 30hr GPS battery and now also has triathlon function and 90% of what the Fenix 7 has.  There is a solar version too.  Price wise is similar to Forerunner 745 and even cheaper in some instances.

https://www.garmin.com/en-ZA/p/775421/pn/010-02626-00#specs

Functionality wise I agree, but most of the guys who can afford these things like the bling colour screens, touch screens etc etc and the latest functionality just goes hand in hand with that.

30 hours at full function for the instinct is good enough for a 100 miler on 1 charge. 

I went for the Fenix 6x pro solar purely because I can get 60 hours full function tracking and breadcrumb, which I have occasionally needed. (By needed I didn't really as I still carried a battery pack 'just in case') hahahaha

We, as a group, tend to think we 'need' a bunch of stuff but really we don't. I was faster when I didn't have a GPS watch or bike computer tbh. I trained better.

 

[BigDL]

SA prices for lots of stuff are eyewatering. God knows how the average Joe survives. Ref smartphones, gamins etc, it is hard to see how these prices can be justified in any way, shape or form. Premium or otherwise, 40k for a phone is a shocker 

[Shebeen]

13 hours ago, BrentCGP said:

MSRP of Fenix 5 when it came out, 599 USD, latest 7, 799 USD. Don't blame Garmin for South Africas useless economic situation and a failing state with a rand dollar that's only going to get worse. The fenix 8 will be R25k, the Fenix 9 will be R30k. Get used it. A cellphone is already at the R40k mark. It's not corporate greed. Is 3rd world economies that are falling behind. 

ok just to humour myself.

Garmin Fenix 7

Garmin SA R13499

Garmin USA R699 = ~R10500 at today's exchange rate

So much for global village.

 

[IceCreamMan]

Guess purchasing power comes into it too. The relative affordability in some countries is much higher than others. 
 

 

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

ok just to humour myself.

Garmin Fenix 7

Garmin SA R13499

Garmin USA R699 = ~R10500 at today's exchange rate

So much for global village.

 

So if they have a USA, Taiwan and Europe based manufacturing plants and factories, how does that affect pricing?

Made in the USA, sold in the USA etc?

That coupled with our own tax/duties imposed by our powers that be  might also have an implication on the cost discrepancy.

We are pretty far from ALL of their manufacturing areas and our trade agreements aren't exactly tip top.

[shaper]

12 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Functionality wise I agree, but most of the guys who can afford these things like the bling colour screens, touch screens etc etc and the latest functionality just goes hand in hand with that.

30 hours at full function for the instinct is good enough for a 100 miler on 1 charge. 

I went for the Fenix 6x pro solar purely because I can get 60 hours full function tracking and breadcrumb, which I have occasionally needed. (By needed I didn't really as I still carried a battery pack 'just in case') hahahaha

We, as a group, tend to think we 'need' a bunch of stuff but really we don't. I was faster when I didn't have a GPS watch or bike computer tbh. I trained better.

 

To a degree I agree and disagree.  Whilst there is a small percentage who like the bling, they will hardly use the functionality.

Many who have been using the F3 for many a year cannot afford the F7 and are looking to upgrade but not at those prices or hang onto their F3 in the hope it does not die.  I was comparing the just released Instinct 2 with the FR745, which many consider upgrading to from the F3 because of price and is good enough for their needs and running and even doing a half Ironman.  Now for a similar price to the FR745 you could do a full ironman and get a whole load of metrics with the just released Instinct 2.

Your reasons for going for the F6x are specific to you, but your needs are as an extreme endurance athlete.

DC has a good write up on the boat load of functions and metrics that have been added to the Instinct 2 and it does not cost the earth https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/02/garmin-instinct2-2s-2-solar-in-depth-review.html