edgarblount Posted April 26, 2022 Share 9 minutes ago, Headshot said: Interesting insights from the BikeHub crew, thanks. I suspect these trends are cyclic and at some point there will be too many subscription services catering to the same people and then someone will have a brilliant idea and create some free to view ad sponsored content to steal their customers... I had a what i suspect is a common experience last year. My 8 year old managed to spend around R2k on my Google account thanks to a pay setting on google I didn't even know existed. My bank was very helpful and blocked my account on Google very swiftly. This led to my Strava premium membership and one other subscription being terminated. I decided not to reinstate it (and my account is still blocked on Google) and that I'd recover the lost funds by simply not subscribing for as long as it takes to recover the funds. I doubt I ever will go back to Strava premium however. I think Google bank on a percentage of users spending accidentally as I did and that the new drive to create subscriber content relies to some extent on the same concept - people simply clicking subscribe without checking that they're now on 25 different subscriptions at $1500.00 per month. This is how Strava 'stole' my money. Opted for the 2 month free premium subscription and then forgot to opt out again before the billing date. I now sit with a Strava premium subscription for a year and I do not even use Strava that much. #checkyoursubscriptions Headshot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted April 26, 2022 Share 19 hours ago, Matt said: You're not wrong here on declining ad revenue, it's definitely a factor in paywall moves like this one, but not the only factor. And as others have pointed out... in some cases it may be too late to save the "patient". There's a whole lot to this discussion that's difficult to cover in a short post. The reality is that the global advertising duopoly that is Google and Facebook has lead to a dramatic decrease in ad revenue for media outlets. The scale and control these two juggernaughts exert is near impossible to compete with and in many cases independent media and small groups like Future (relative to the tech giants), are now earning cents in the rand for every 1000 subscribers / viewers / eyeballs vs. what they were able to earn 10 or so years ago. As much as it pains me to acknowledge, Google and Facebook both offer easy-to-use ad platforms with rich targeting capabilities, DIY facilities and the ability to spend R100 or R100 million depending on your budget. Publishers have tried to compete with bespoke offerings, content partnerships and other exclusive opportunities with some success. But ultimately more ad spend continues to move to the big platforms. Moves like Apple's anti-tracking and regulation like GDPR has slowed their growth, but they'll find new ways to track and identify users. It's easy to place the blame on the big tech monopolies and call it a day though. But in part, internet media and platforms are their own worst enemies when it comes to creating a culture of free. Only to later alienate users with increasingly invasive advertising and progressively weaker content. In that space it's a race to the bottom in both quality of the content / offering and the ad revenue that can be derived from it. The business model of purely ad-supported content is broken. And personally I don't think it should be or can be fixed. The industry is in the midst of a big, much-needed reset. In think that in time economics will prevail, but that's not going to happen overnight. In an ideal world, if you as a reader / member see sufficient value in a publication or platform you should be willing to pay a reasonable fee for access to it. If you and enough others don't see sufficient value then perhaps it wasn't worth producing in the first place (economically speaking). Those that are low-quality and don't deliver value will falter in time. In the cycling media space there are some stand outs like GCN+ and CyclingTips as some have highlighted here who produce great content and have a subs fee deemed "worth it". But then even a platform as abundantly pervasive as Strava is struggling to convert free users to paid subscribers. There's some work to be done by many. In the case of CyclingNews, I see some chirps about the capitalistic, money-driven owners. While I'm sure shareholders and quarterly performance has driven many decisions, I'd hazard a guess that this is more of a last-ditch (and likely too late based on comments here) effort to stay viable rather than some super-car driving mogul looking to fund their next play toy. Cyclingnew , Bikeradar etal had their day. there are far better products available now and the media space is evolving fast. Ten years ago an internet forum was the bees knees, Instagram now delivers quicker more punchy anecdote and laces advertising seamlessly into the feed. Bike forums in contrast are messy, now littered with off topic comments and ads. This drives users away. Youtube has so much information available and you can listen to it and absorb while cooking dinner or pretending to the listen to your mother in law talk - just fit an airpod. That said there is a place for all platforms if executed correctly. A reset will just weed out the drivel. Hopefully the likes of CyclingNews and Bikeradar falls into this category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane_Bosch Posted April 26, 2022 Share On 4/25/2022 at 11:03 AM, UnclePolli said: BUT DSTV which is pay TV by definition is also advertising now like crazy. I've never understood why DSTV advertises DSTV to people who are already DSTV subscribers. That's like me constantly telling my wife how big or not so big my man bits are. I'm pretty sure she already knows. While we are talking pay vs not pay. The one service I'm paying for which I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to pay for is Youtube. R109 a month. 6 Family members. No adverts YT Music Downloadable playlists YT music (ad free) Edited April 26, 2022 by Duane_Bosch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ouzo Posted April 26, 2022 Share 2 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said: I've never understood why DSTV advertises DSTV to people who are already DSTV subscribers. That's like me constantly telling my wife how big or not so big my man bits are. I'm pretty sure she already knows. While we are talking pay vs not pay. The one service I'm paying for which I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to pay for is Youtube. R109 a month. 6 Family members. No adverts YT Music Downloadable playlists YT music (ad free) everybody knows coca cola, yet they still advertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headshot Posted April 26, 2022 Share 1 minute ago, Duane_Bosch said: I've never understood why DSTV advertises DSTV to people who are already DSTV subscribers. That's like me constantly telling my wife how big or not so big my man bits are. I'm pretty sure she already knows. While we are talking pay vs not pay. The one service I'm paying for which I'm MORE THAN HAPPY to pay for is Youtube. R109 a month. 6 Family members. No adverts YT Music Downloadable playlists YT music (ad free) Oh yah, YT Music was the other sub I ditched when Google stole my money. Now on Spotify - first three months free, and so much happier. I liked Google play music but YT music is k$k. DieselnDust 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanCT Posted April 26, 2022 Share It would be interesting to hear what others think of print vs video. Lot's of the other good news/info sites are built from video services and then blog/web pages as an additional service. Links to "free" video services. https://www.youtube.com/c/LanterneRougeCycling https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHornerCycling https://www.youtube.com/c/hardtailparty https://www.youtube.com/c/PeakTorque https://www.youtube.com/c/Hambini Not Video... https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ <-- paid option so doesn't really count https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/ https://www.procyclingstats.com/ Also find that a lot of these services are built without having to pedal the marketing info the the bike industry wants pushed. Edited April 26, 2022 by DuncanCT nonky and peetwindhoek 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jensie Posted April 26, 2022 Share when you open in incognito mode you read all articles, no paywall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 26, 2022 Share 50 minutes ago, edgarblount said: This is how Strava 'stole' my money. Opted for the 2 month free premium subscription and then forgot to opt out again before the billing date. I now sit with a Strava premium subscription for a year and I do not even use Strava that much. #checkyoursubscriptions Same happened with me on the Veloviewer subscription. I have multiple reminders for July to end the subscription. edgarblount 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shebeen Posted April 26, 2022 Share 1 hour ago, Nick said: Sorry if I missed a step but how is this relevant for the website today? Or are we specifically discussing its value in the 2007 market? That's the same year the first iPhone came out and Blackberry was probably still considered a good investment too. no it's not really that relevant for today, but you also missed such an easy reference; could have said anything like the bikehub.co.za wasn't even using that url yet. I only quoted it because people were going on about it's 28 year legacy (an actual figure was quoted for the sale price too). The article itself was quite interesting from my perspective, and the fact that cyclingtips named it a "success" was mainly a dig at @jewwie who doesn't want to discus it further anyway Why is this legacy important? Well the people who chose to gamble on the supporters of all those years now converting to a paid subscription model really thought that there was some long term loyalty they could leverage. It turns out that if you want loyalty it seems that cycling readers are nowhere close to Fido. 1 hour ago, edgarblount said: This is how Strava 'stole' my money. Opted for the 2 month free premium subscription and then forgot to opt out again before the billing date. I now sit with a Strava premium subscription for a year and I do not even use Strava that much. #checkyoursubscriptions I think stole is a bit of strong word there, they held up their end of the bargain. I have had things where they make the opt-out virtually impossible, becomes a total waste of time - felt robbed indeed. Zebra and Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted April 26, 2022 Share 6 minutes ago, Shebeen said: no it's not really that relevant for today, but you also missed such an easy reference; could have said anything like the bikehub.co.za wasn't even using that url yet. I wasn't around in those early days but if I were, I'm sure I could have helped Matt secure a couple million quid deal too. Even for the yellow message board it was then 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarblount Posted April 26, 2022 Share 6 minutes ago, Shebeen said: no it's not really that relevant for today, but you also missed such an easy reference; could have said anything like the bikehub.co.za wasn't even using that url yet. I only quoted it because people were going on about it's 28 year legacy (an actual figure was quoted for the sale price too). The article itself was quite interesting from my perspective, and the fact that cyclingtips named it a "success" was mainly a dig at @jewwie who doesn't want to discus it further anyway Why is this legacy important? Well the people who chose to gamble on the supporters of all those years now converting to a paid subscription model really thought that there was some long term loyalty they could leverage. It turns out that if you want loyalty it seems that cycling readers are nowhere close to Fido. I think stole is a bit of strong word there, they held up their end of the bargain. I have had things where they make the opt-out virtually impossible, becomes a total waste of time - felt robbed indeed. Ja ja I know. It is after all Le Hub where we make the pap dik aan. Reminds me, need to check my Truth Social subscription. Might need to move it back to Twitter soon. BaGearA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne pudding Mol Posted April 27, 2022 Share 17 hours ago, Frosty said: The first one can be used to start a fire, soak up moisture in shoes after a wet ride, protect the chest on a chilly ride, then discarded once used. You have much to learn young padawan @Sid the Slothbut you pick up things quickly so there’s hope other uses in a pinch include wiping ones saddle pad in the bush, soaking up oil from food, cleaning windows and rolling a nice boxer loose Sid the Sloth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJuice Posted June 9, 2022 Share Debated this for months with myself, ended up taking an Cyclingtips subscription. Not the fastest on the days results over weekends, but the quality of the photo`s, diverse articles persuaded me. That two day coverage of the Australian Handmade cycle scene...awesomeness just there. Have about 5 items on my life`s list, one is to build and own a custom handmade bicycle. splat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat Posted July 1, 2022 Share On 6/9/2022 at 2:16 PM, DJuice said: Debated this for months with myself, ended up taking an Cyclingtips subscription. Not the fastest on the days results over weekends, but the quality of the photo`s, diverse articles persuaded me. That two day coverage of the Australian Handmade cycle scene...awesomeness just there. Have about 5 items on my life`s list, one is to build and own a custom handmade bicycle. Also just signed up to CyclingTips.com I took the bait on their Tour de France special. First year @ $10.00 Also just connected DSTV for the month of July... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVERDRIVE Posted July 1, 2022 Share 36 minutes ago, splat said: Also just signed up to CyclingTips.com I took the bait on their Tour de France special. First year @ $10.00 Also just connected DSTV for the month of July... You speak forus both... splat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJuice Posted November 16, 2022 Share On 6/9/2022 at 2:16 PM, DJuice said: Debated this for months with myself, ended up taking an Cyclingtips subscription. Not the fastest on the days results over weekends, but the quality of the photo`s, diverse articles persuaded me. That two day coverage of the Australian Handmade cycle scene...awesomeness just there. Have about 5 items on my life`s list, one is to build and own a custom handmade bicycle. All is not well at CyclingTips and Outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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