Chain lube

[DieselnDust]

4 hours ago, madmarc said:

Because the market has led the sheeple to believe dry lube is the answer to longer drivetrain life with a lot less cleaning required - And we all know how lazy we are when it comes to cleaning the drivetrain - less cleaning makes a happy cyclist.

 500ml of 20W40 mixed up with a bit of chainsaw oil to increase the viscosity - you be having chain lube for the next 100 years and a much longer chain and sprocket life.

are you referring to the oil used to lubricate the cutting blades over the runners? That is awfully sticky stuff!!!

[LazyTrailRider]

6 hours ago, NotSoBigBen said:

IMHO there are very few products today where the price is based on input costs plus a fair profit as was the case many many years ago.

What's a "fair profit" though? No such thing exists. It's the same as "XYZ used to pay decent wages", but what's a "decent wage"?

If I can figure out a way to produce something for 5% of the cost my competitors are able to, you can be damn sure I'm going to take all the profit I can. That's why innovation is one of the core enablers of capitalism...

In addition to that, market dynamics also incentivise me to charge as high a price as the market is willing to bear. If it's too high, I'll lose demand and it will equalise. Importantly though, this only materialises at scale. In small volume industries, widespread value awareness is either not always present, or it's countered by the law of "good luck finding this somewhere else" 😜

My business is currently busy building a SaaS product, an industry where one of the core ways of making money is automating everything down to the very last little micro-process to get direct unit costs as close to zero as possible. Notions of "fair profit" flew out the window on day 1 of our planning process...

Edited June 24, 2022 by LazyTrailRider

[madmarc]

4 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

are you referring to the oil used to lubricate the cutting blades over the runners? That is awfully sticky stuff!!!

Yes also known as bar oil - normal engine oil tends to be a bit runny and drips/sprays everywhere the bar oil makes it a bit more sticky - Don't mix too much i use about 10:1 ratio. If you spin the pedals and you get strands of oil forming between the sprockets and chain = too much bar oil.

also people tend to over lube the chain cause they in a hurry and spin the cranks while lubing this ends up gungking up your sprockets and pulleys - 1 drop per roller is all thats needed.

I actually need to give credit to Johan Boring Man - Its his recipe from that article he wrote on chains and chain lube many years ago. From an engineering point of view, the only correct lube for chain drives is a hydrocarbon lube (basically oil). If dry lubes worked then every chain drive manufacturer would be recommending it and i've only ever seen snake oil salesmen in the bicycle industry recommending it.

[DieselnDust]

5 minutes ago, madmarc said:

Yes also known as bar oil - normal engine oil tends to be a bit runny and drips/sprays everywhere the bar oil makes it a bit more sticky - Don't mix too much i use about 10:1 ratio. If you spin the pedals and you get strands of oil forming between the sprockets and chain = too much bar oil.

also people tend to over lube the chain cause they in a hurry and spin the cranks while lubing this ends up gungking up your sprockets and pulleys - 1 drop per roller is all thats needed.

I actually need to give credit to Johan Boring Man - Its his recipe from that article he wrote on chains and chain lube many years ago. From an engineering point of view, the only correct lube for chain drives is a hydrocarbon lube (basically oil). If dry lubes worked then every chain drive manufacturer would be recommending it and i've only ever seen snake oil salesmen in the bicycle industry recommending it.

Bar oil is certainly ideal but mountain bikers don't like dirty chains even if the inside of the chain is well lubed and clean. There is a belief that once you see dirt it bad and we must get to the scrubber ASAP. Fighting the perceptions and marketing that bankers buy into is a difficult passtime. I know bankers who "know" more about lube than I do....When schooled, the argument swings to "well its expensive so it must work.." Thats the S**t we deal with in this hobby.

Crunchy noises are associated with evaporative wear of your drivetrain and not just dirt moving out of the way.  too this day i still field questions on "why is my engine oil so black after I just changed it!!??"

In Mining chains are lubed with what is essentially grease. The grease is sticky and applied in the workshop after the chain has been cleaned. They never lube it again. The chains, sprockets and motor shafts are all filthy but the import parts are well lubed and protected behind seals much like BB bearings, hub bearings etc. 

In the food industry, low consistency grease is the preferred product. it works very well but does not get exposed to much dirt 

Thin, low viscosity engine oils don't serve any purpose on bicycle chains. Wax on its own is not a lubricant, it needs to carry something that will help it adhere to metal surfaces and have enough consistency to stay in place rather than get squeezed out.

But the bike industry is filled with snake oil 

[madmarc]

28 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

Thin, low viscosity engine oils don't serve any purpose on bicycle chains.

And thats why you add Bar oil - it increases the viscosity and dramatically improves retention but still allowing enough fluidity to move in and out of bearing surfaces 

[NotSoBigBen]

I've clearly been schooled today on pricing and best I just accept that everyone is providing the best price THEY can and be happy ...

[madmarc]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

How much of the chainsaw oil to the other 500ml ?

 

Application the same as normal ?

 

 

 

I do have a chainsaw .... so this one do tick the boxes for me ....

10% bar oil with 90% engine oil - More or less - I use an old lube bottle to mix it - sometimes I add a bit too much bar oil and get strands coming off the chain when i spin it - Then i add some more engine oil, i still get a few strands initailly, but i spin the cranks a few times and then wipe the excess off the chainstay - I also lightly rub off the inside of the chain after lubing.  The trick is not to overlube the chain 1 drop per roller is more than enough.

Apply the same as you would any other lube

[lechatnoir]

19 hours ago, Prince Albert Cycles said:

Not a sarcastic question ..what ingredient is so expensive that a 120ml container of dry chain lube is selling for R179 ? And some others close to that price.

simple... it's a price people are prepared to pay... why would they charge less if they can get away with it?

[MudLark]

7 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

June 2021

"Prices of Paraffine Wax remained in a narrow range during this quarter across North America region, backed by high inventory levels. Due to the polar storm in last quarter, production of Paraffin Wax remained low in the country. However, availability remained abundant to tackle any demand from downstream cosmetics and candle manufacturers. Despite of slow refinery rate, older stocks was so abundant that led to an overall slump in the prices of Paraffin Wax in the country. Therefore, price of Paraffin wax tumbled effectively settling at around USD 1355/MT for light grade in Texas."

 

June 2022

"Paraffin wax prices increased throughout the first quarter of 2022 in the North American market. Demand remained stable from downstream paper and agriculture industry. However, strong offtakes due to consistent demand from the cosmetics and pharmaceutical segments till the end of the quarter escalated the values. In March, reduced supplies from Asian countries due to global supply chain disruption and increased upstream crude oil values boosted Paraffin wax prices in the international market. Paraffin wax CFR prices settled at USD 2250 per MT in the end of Q1 2022 in North America.

 

#semanet

Interesting but our local paraffin wax is made by SASOL. So while the above may be valid for U.S.-made products, I am not sure that is applicable to locally made products.

[SwissVan]

3 hours ago, NotSoBigBen said:

I've clearly been schooled today on pricing and best I just accept that everyone is providing the best price THEY can and be happy ...

There is a fair price, and a FAIR price….and then your best price, his best price and my best price😁

Priceless stuff

 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, MudLark said:

Interesting but our local paraffin wax is made by SASOL. So while the above may be valid for U.S.-made products, I am not sure that is applicable to locally made products.

The product is priced globally. It’s an export and is manufactured from imported gas from Mozambique.

other exports that are priced globally;

chemicals

fertilizer

ethanol

methanol

metal ores

steel

gold

platinum and other precious metals

wheat

maize

sugar

etc etc etc

in some cases surpluses are priced below market value especially if perishable and non storable produce.

there’s loads more agricultural produce that’s priced internationally too

Edited June 24, 2022 by DieselnDust

[DieselnDust]

44 minutes ago, SwissVan said:

There is a fair price, and a FAIR price….and then your best price, his best price and my best price😁

Priceless stuff

 

And that in a nut shell is the world of international commodities trading 

[MudLark]

10 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

The product is priced globally. It’s an export and is manufactured from imported gas from Mozambique.

other exports that are priced globally;

chemicals

fertilizer

ethanol

methanol

metal ores

steel

gold

platinum and other precious metals

wheat

maize

sugar

etc etc etc

in some cases surpluses are priced below market value especially if perishable and non storable produce.

there’s loads more agricultural produce that’s priced internationally too

Touche.

[DieselnDust]

What would reduce our local costs is the transport cost would be smaller than for an export landed price at destination. That’s where we score 

[porqui]

What drives the price up of lube and any lube for that matter is marketing.

Same case with that stuff you gooi in your tjoepless tires.

Where is Johan Bornman when you need him. 🙃

 

I had a case some years ago where I could manufacture and sell energy powder/drink at a fraction of the price that the market could supply. A 2.5kg tub of powder was selling for R280 at the LBS at the time and I was making my own with the exact same base ingredient which I was buying from Tongaat at R275 for a 25kg bag. I approached some dealers to gauge interest - none - it was all about the marketing. I wanted to keep it too simple.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by porqui

[dasilvarsa]

Don't Use Oil on Chain on Bikes with Disk Brakes.

It can get into the disks and pads and give you much grief. (Been there a few times)

Use Squirt Wax Based Lube for complete peace of mind.