Tour de France 2025

[Mountain Bru]

Looks like the tour is over 🫤

[DieselnDust]

Legs are slowing …..hips are rocking

this is what it takes to get stronger in the third week. Bury yourself in the purple 

[DieselnDust]

Chapeau Jonas. It was just a scratch yesterday and only a flesh wound today.

roll on week3

[cadenceblur]

Wow, what a combative ride from the man in yellow!

Stamping his authority on the race, but still some riding to come.

But for today Chapeau Tadej !

Edited July 14 by cadenceblur

[Mountain Bru]

3 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

13 riders went faster than Lances 2001 time yesterday 
There was a strong tailwind 
LR over estimate values when they try calculate them
Looking at the VAM value and calculation this is more 6.6-6.7wkg which is still insane. 

They have a whole system to try to account for altitude and wind conditions, and then to normalise the w/kg for a 60kg rider, and then arrive at an ᵉW/Kg value, or etalon w/kg value. 
https://lanternerouge.com/2023/02/07/watts-primer/

I think the idea is that if you can "normalise" for conditions and for rider weights, then you can actually compare climbing performances, even though the actual W/kg value might be different to what the rider actually did. 

[J Wakefield]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

They have a whole system to try to account for altitude and wind conditions, and then to normalise the w/kg for a 60kg rider, and then arrive at an ᵉW/Kg value, or etalon w/kg value. 
https://lanternerouge.com/2023/02/07/watts-primer/

I think the idea is that if you can "normalise" for conditions and for rider weights, then you can actually compare climbing performances, even though the actual W/kg value might be different to what the rider actually did. 

Thanks,

Everyone has a system.
I can with full confidence say that they over estimate 9/10 times, especially when you have a file from a rider(s) they are reporting on. Sometimes it's fairly close but often it's pretty off. 

I will stand with the 6.6-6.7wkg for yesterday, it's not 6.85. 

[cadenceblur]

A summary of the Jonas attack?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9aFyUtN9Kq/?igsh=eHo1ZXp1bHhzODg1

[DieselnDust]

17 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

They have a whole system to try to account for altitude and wind conditions, and then to normalise the w/kg for a 60kg rider, and then arrive at an ᵉW/Kg value, or etalon w/kg value. 
https://lanternerouge.com/2023/02/07/watts-primer/

I think the idea is that if you can "normalise" for conditions and for rider weights, then you can actually compare climbing performances, even though the actual W/kg value might be different to what the rider actually did. 

Still not sure what the point is you’re trying to articulate. I doubt LR has riders exact weight and power profiles, vo2 max etc. So their system is only an approximation at best. 

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

A summary of the Jonas attack?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9aFyUtN9Kq/?igsh=eHo1ZXp1bHhzODg1

Isn't that what everyone is thinking?

Pog has the lead. It's for everyone else to attack him and do the riding.

This is one of the reasons his persistent attacks have been contrary to team orders.

But ja, still a long way to go but yeah, it certainly doesn't look like Jonas 'is obviously in top form' after that and if he is, the Pog is on another planet currently

[DieselnDust]

48 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Isn't that what everyone is thinking?

Pog has the lead. It's for everyone else to attack him and do the riding.

This is one of the reasons his persistent attacks have been contrary to team orders.

But ja, still a long way to go but yeah, it certainly doesn't look like Jonas 'is obviously in top form' after that and if he is, the Pog is on another planet currently

It might be more reasonable to assume Jonas has been racing out of his skin, on the limit and over it which isn’t going to make the fairy tale “he’ll be in form by week3…” come true. 
he looked battered after yesterdays stage and after todays he looked worse on the bike. Baring a blood transfusion there is no way in clean sport he “comes into form in week 3.”

 

not quoting you, but a general sentiment that has been conveyed in the thread.

i would not be surprised if he ships more time. His performance has already been miraculous basis the injuries he suffered in April. Hopefully he can stabilise his form  and defend second resolutely 

[betaboy]

Brutal stage today…. JV should hold his head up high! This guy a few weeks back was in hospital for close on two weeks and now his fighting The Pog Machine! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻This is one of the best comebacks ever and let’s be honest here, his up against a well oiled UAE. Visma is just not the same since Jumbo exited. 2024 season has been a disaster as a collective.

[DieselnDust]

5 minutes ago, betaboy said:

Brutal stage today…. JV should hold his head up high! This guy a few weeks back was in hospital for close on two weeks and now his fighting The Pog Machine! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻This is one of the best comebacks ever and let’s be honest here, his up against a well oiled UAE. Visma is just not the same since Jumbo exited. 2024 season has been a disaster as a collective.

In previous years Jumbo had 3 riders they could build a grand tour squad around, Steven Kruiswijk, Primoz Roglic, Tom Dumoulin before the emergence of Jonas in 2021. 
then they lost Steven and Tom and became focussed on Primoz and now Jonas. They have lost the depth and flexibility they once enjoyed. It’s now all in for Jonas which means they’ve morphed from bring Grand Tour protagonists to Tour De France focussed. 
 

this year they have had bad luck but also a lack of depth for the Tour and when that doesn’t work out it looks like a rotten year. If they had more wins in the classics they wouldn’t look back and say , “ bad year”.

the all in for the your approach is high stakes because more teams have got the formula right but one of those has Tadej Pogačar.

They can use the same strategy next year and gave the same risks, or revert to previous years structures and take the heat off themselves 

[Bub Marley]

3 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

They have a whole system to try to account for altitude and wind conditions, and then to normalise the w/kg for a 60kg rider, and then arrive at an ᵉW/Kg value, or etalon w/kg value. 
https://lanternerouge.com/2023/02/07/watts-primer/

I think the idea is that if you can "normalise" for conditions and for rider weights, then you can actually compare climbing performances, even though the actual W/kg value might be different to what the rider actually did. 

Mate forget about the stats. You can immediately tell when Pog is over or under the limit just by using your eyes. 

[Jewbacca]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

In previous years Jumbo had 3 riders they could build a grand tour squad around, Steven Kruiswijk, Primoz Roglic, Tom Dumoulin before the emergence of Jonas in 2021. 
then they lost Steven and Tom and became focussed on Primoz and now Jonas. They have lost the depth and flexibility they once enjoyed. It’s now all in for Jonas which means they’ve morphed from bring Grand Tour protagonists to Tour De France focussed. 
 

this year they have had bad luck but also a lack of depth for the Tour and when that doesn’t work out it looks like a rotten year. If they had more wins in the classics they wouldn’t look back and say , “ bad year”.

the all in for the your approach is high stakes because more teams have got the formula right but one of those has Tadej Pogačar.

They can use the same strategy next year and gave the same risks, or revert to previous years structures and take the heat off themselves 

Add the loss of Kuss and the 'also returning from injury' van Aert and you have the two top domestiques 'MIA' while Vingo is also low on confidence, low on race time, unsure how his recovery has really gone etc....

Last season was 3 GT's and a whole lot of Spring wins. This year it could very well be zero GTs and less Spring wins... They won Omloop, Dwars Door and 19 other top tier wins... 21 isn't a poor season but it's not good by their standards 

[F@yino]

Jonas post race interview he says he did 1 of his best rides ever. I think Pogi has just reached another level this season. UAE undoubtedly have a stronger team in the mountains this year as well.

[DieselnDust]

19 minutes ago, F@yino said:

Jonas post race interview he says he did 1 of his best rides ever. I think Pogi has just reached another level this season. UAE undoubtedly have a stronger team in the mountains this year as well.

Damn right , today that too team was Visma lease a bike.

pogačar probably made a call to the customer support and ordered a mountain team lead out and they sent Keldermann, Jorgenson and Vingegaard😂