Support vehicle rant

[peepeekaitjie]

Everyone calm down. After ctct next weekend the roads will return to normal 

[madmarc]

Aaaaah the famous safety car debate - many years ago i was responsible for starting the safety car for our club. Other than having a safety car available for support in the event of a technical or an accident, its primary goal is safety against approaching vehicles from the rear.

lets assume there is no safety vehicle behind a group riding single file or 2 abreast or whatever - the vehicle approaching from behind does not treat the group like another slower moving vehicle when passing. Normally it would slow down, check if its safe for oncoming vehicles and then pass in the right lane. Nope they simply squeeze past the group in their lane without slowing and as close as possible to the group even when there is an oncoming vehicle from the opposite direction. I need not go into the details of how dangerous this is.

Place a safety vehicle behind the group and now the vehicle approaching is forced to treat the situation like any other when approaching a slower moving vehicle in its lane - It is forced to slow down and pass when he sees its safe to pass both the safety vehicle and the group of riders - almost the same when you passing a slower car or an intra-link truck - The driver needs to make sure its safe to cover the distance in the opposite lane before attempting to pass.

Riding 2 or 3 abreast, which can now be done because of the safety vehicle behind -  dramatically shortens the distance the passing vehicle has to cover when passing making the maneuver quicker and safer.

In addition the safety vehicle provides a buffer and dramatically reduces the risk of the group being rear ended by an approaching vehicle where the driver is not concentrating on the road in front of him - We've seen these types of accidents happen often.

The biggest mistake i see with safety vehicles is when they sit behind that one guy who got dropped and the actual group is 1km ahead spread across the road because they think their vehicle is still behind them. This is because the drivers are normally wifey or seuntjie or some student earning a 400 ronds weekend side hussle and have no concept of what the safety vehicle should actually be doing.   

So lets deal with all the karens complaining  - They only complain when a group of cyclists are involved - do they rant on social media when its a slower car or a truck that caused them to be 3 min late for church ? Some of them are actually cyclists themselves "Face Plant emoji here" but most are not and don't identify a bicycle as another vehicle on the road, it's just another menace like a pothole or a minibus taxi and another reason for their miserable lives to be even more miserable and angry.

With the slaughter of cyclists on our roads every day caused by vehicles - clubs and groups will take more and more safety precautions to protect themselves, even if they are "Technically" illegal. But if it means that even 1 cyclist was stopped from being killed then its worked.

So when you approach a safety vehicle behind a group of lycra clad clowns on carbon farmgates - Don't be a box - Be lekka - relax, slow down, pass when its safe. you may even get a hand wave thank you as you pass and there will still be a place in the pew at the back of the church when you arrive.  

[Spookie]

13 hours ago, madmarc said:

Aaaaah the famous safety car debate - many years ago i was responsible for starting the safety car for our club. Other than having a safety car available for support in the event of a technical or an accident, its primary goal is safety against approaching vehicles from the rear.

lets assume there is no safety vehicle behind a group riding single file or 2 abreast or whatever - the vehicle approaching from behind does not treat the group like another slower moving vehicle when passing. Normally it would slow down, check if its safe for oncoming vehicles and then pass in the right lane. Nope they simply squeeze past the group in their lane without slowing and as close as possible to the group even when there is an oncoming vehicle from the opposite direction. I need not go into the details of how dangerous this is.

Place a safety vehicle behind the group and now the vehicle approaching is forced to treat the situation like any other when approaching a slower moving vehicle in its lane - It is forced to slow down and pass when he sees its safe to pass both the safety vehicle and the group of riders - almost the same when you passing a slower car or an intra-link truck - The driver needs to make sure its safe to cover the distance in the opposite lane before attempting to pass.

Riding 2 or 3 abreast, which can now be done because of the safety vehicle behind -  dramatically shortens the distance the passing vehicle has to cover when passing making the maneuver quicker and safer.

In addition the safety vehicle provides a buffer and dramatically reduces the risk of the group being rear ended by an approaching vehicle where the driver is not concentrating on the road in front of him - We've seen these types of accidents happen often.

The biggest mistake i see with safety vehicles is when they sit behind that one guy who got dropped and the actual group is 1km ahead spread across the road because they think their vehicle is still behind them. This is because the drivers are normally wifey or seuntjie or some student earning a 400 ronds weekend side hussle and have no concept of what the safety vehicle should actually be doing.   

So lets deal with all the karens complaining  - They only complain when a group of cyclists are involved - do they rant on social media when its a slower car or a truck that caused them to be 3 min late for church ? Some of them are actually cyclists themselves "Face Plant emoji here" but most are not and don't identify a bicycle as another vehicle on the road, it's just another menace like a pothole or a minibus taxi and another reason for their miserable lives to be even more miserable and angry.

With the slaughter of cyclists on our roads every day caused by vehicles - clubs and groups will take more and more safety precautions to protect themselves, even if they are "Technically" illegal. But if it means that even 1 cyclist was stopped from being killed then its worked.

So when you approach a safety vehicle behind a group of lycra clad clowns on carbon farmgates - Don't be a box - Be lekka - relax, slow down, pass when its safe. you may even get a hand wave thank you as you pass and there will still be a place in the pew at the back of the church when you arrive.  

Ok, but what are other cyclists who want to pass supposed to do? While you may be protecting the group you are driving behind, other cyclists are seemingly more in danger having to now go right around the car and the cyclists who are now also riding 2/3 abreast?

[peetwindhoek]

6 hours ago, Spookie said:

Ok, but what are other cyclists who want to pass supposed to do? While you may be protecting the group you are driving behind, other cyclists are seemingly more in danger having to now go right around the car and the cyclists who are now also riding 2/3 abreast?

Same as any other vehicle on the road, pass when it is safe to do so. 

[dave303e]

We have to use the an R road for about 10km before can jump onto the highway into Pretoria. Now this stretch of road is a s.... show at the best of times but it seems to be popular among road cyclists and mtb riders. There is no shoulder and while the speed limit is 100, you will get passed at 120 at any time of day, there are people pulling over into dirt roads and driveways and coal trucks and usually the od animal or 2 on the road. I have seen it twice where a safety car was following cyclists and 3 or 4 cars get stuck behind the safety car and then some idiot takes a narrow gap to pass all the cars and just barely gets back into the correct lane before having a head on collision. And both times they have nearly taken out the cyclists as they dive back into the left hand lane. My 2c, if you feel you need a safety car on a certain road. Chances are you should rather just not be cycling on that road and rather find a better route...

I also don't know why someone hasn't spotted the gap yet and built an Al Qudra style bike loop. If you got an insurer, a vitality type rewards scheme, a bike shop with a spares shop at the start point and a good coffee shop on board to help with the costs I am sure in the long term it could be semi viable. Especially if it is close enough to jhb. 

[love2fly]

23 hours ago, madmarc said:

Aaaaah the famous safety car debate - many years ago i was responsible for starting the safety car for our club. Other than having a safety car available for support in the event of a technical or an accident, its primary goal is safety against approaching vehicles from the rear.

lets assume there is no safety vehicle behind a group riding single file or 2 abreast or whatever - the vehicle approaching from behind does not treat the group like another slower moving vehicle when passing. Normally it would slow down, check if its safe for oncoming vehicles and then pass in the right lane. Nope they simply squeeze past the group in their lane without slowing and as close as possible to the group even when there is an oncoming vehicle from the opposite direction. I need not go into the details of how dangerous this is.

Place a safety vehicle behind the group and now the vehicle approaching is forced to treat the situation like any other when approaching a slower moving vehicle in its lane - It is forced to slow down and pass when he sees its safe to pass both the safety vehicle and the group of riders - almost the same when you passing a slower car or an intra-link truck - The driver needs to make sure its safe to cover the distance in the opposite lane before attempting to pass.

Riding 2 or 3 abreast, which can now be done because of the safety vehicle behind -  dramatically shortens the distance the passing vehicle has to cover when passing making the maneuver quicker and safer.

In addition the safety vehicle provides a buffer and dramatically reduces the risk of the group being rear ended by an approaching vehicle where the driver is not concentrating on the road in front of him - We've seen these types of accidents happen often.

The biggest mistake i see with safety vehicles is when they sit behind that one guy who got dropped and the actual group is 1km ahead spread across the road because they think their vehicle is still behind them. This is because the drivers are normally wifey or seuntjie or some student earning a 400 ronds weekend side hussle and have no concept of what the safety vehicle should actually be doing.   

So lets deal with all the karens complaining  - They only complain when a group of cyclists are involved - do they rant on social media when its a slower car or a truck that caused them to be 3 min late for church ? Some of them are actually cyclists themselves "Face Plant emoji here" but most are not and don't identify a bicycle as another vehicle on the road, it's just another menace like a pothole or a minibus taxi and another reason for their miserable lives to be even more miserable and angry.

With the slaughter of cyclists on our roads every day caused by vehicles - clubs and groups will take more and more safety precautions to protect themselves, even if they are "Technically" illegal. But if it means that even 1 cyclist was stopped from being killed then its worked.

So when you approach a safety vehicle behind a group of lycra clad clowns on carbon farmgates - Don't be a box - Be lekka - relax, slow down, pass when its safe. you may even get a hand wave thank you as you pass and there will still be a place in the pew at the back of the church when you arrive.  

No the Karen's DONT only complain when it's a group....but seeing as you raised it, I get that a support vehicle needs to protect a group from collision from the rear....unfortunately Cyclelab believe that they own the road and encroach 4 to 5 wide when guys like Northcliff and Club 100 just get on with it....Northcliffs vehicle is generally nowhere near them and stops to help anyone - Kudos to them. My issue is when a single cyclist rides with Mom,dad or luvvy driving just behind that one rider...my concern is it's only going to get worse. 5 years ago there were none, now it's common, who knows where 5 years will take us.

[Spookie]

2 hours ago, peetwindhoek said:

Same as any other vehicle on the road, pass when it is safe to do so. 

But in reality, let’s say going up a hill, a cyclist is going to take a lot longer to get past a car and a group of cyclists than a car would be able to accelerate. By the time you’re halfway it may no longer be safe? So then what? 

It’s a lot easier if it’s just a group of cyclists to ask them to please keep left so you can still safely pass within your lane.

imagine every group of cyclists out there with a safety car, it would be absolute chaos? 

[Eddy Gordo]

whether safety car or not, isnt it still as per law, single file only?

[The Ouzo]

1 minute ago, Eddy Gordo said:

whether safety car or not, isnt it still as per law, single file only?

even if it is, I think the explanation above of more riders abreast, shortening the distance between the rear and the front of the group, makes alot of sense. In my mind anyway.

 

[Eddy Gordo]

so then fill the lane, and let everyone else pass into oncoming traffic? so basically leave no room for cars, motorbikes, or other bicycles. I saw this convoy, and thought to myself how selfish they are. It was 3 or 4 abreast and nothing could pass them. 

Just asking, I understand the point, but fail to see the logic. 

[The Ouzo]

11 minutes ago, Eddy Gordo said:

so then fill the lane, and let everyone else pass into oncoming traffic? so basically leave no room for cars, motorbikes, or other bicycles. I saw this convoy, and thought to myself how selfish they are. It was 3 or 4 abreast and nothing could pass them. 

Just asking, I understand the point, but fail to see the logic. 

I'm not sure there is a perfect solution to this.

Remove the safety car and then the group the car is "protecting" is vulnerable,

add a safety car and the cyclists approaching from behind are then vulnerable passing the group.

 

I ride alone, I dont have this dilemma 

[Eddy Gordo]

1 hour ago, The Ouzo said:

I'm not sure there is a perfect solution to this.

Remove the safety car and then the group the car is "protecting" is vulnerable,

add a safety car and the cyclists approaching from behind are then vulnerable passing the group.

 

I ride alone, I dont have this dilemma 

indeed, hence why I ride alone as well, maybe in a small group of probably max 6, but not for a while

[Paul Ruinaard]

My pet hate was support cars behind in Jhb in the cradle. Always at this time of the year with CTCT in the offing and noobs who are doing longer rides. I have been flamed mightily about this from indignant follow car advocates in these aliases. I get it for the bigger clubs but its the mom and pop situations where they do this with limited experience and much hand waving. 

[DroppedRider]

With more people driving with their mobile phones in their hands I just don't feel safe without a club follow car behind on long rides. There is also a safety aspect to it as well in terms of crime. Also most long rides are early in the morning on a Saturday and Sunday when those returning from the clubs, bars and shebeens hit the road. 

I do however feel that PPA need to have a simple handbook for support drivers 

[Danger Dassie]

4 hours ago, love2fly said:

No the Karen's DONT only complain when it's a group....but seeing as you raised it, I get that a support vehicle needs to protect a group from collision from the rear....unfortunately Cyclelab believe that they own the road and encroach 4 to 5 wide when guys like Northcliff and Club 100 just get on with it....Northcliffs vehicle is generally nowhere near them and stops to help anyone - Kudos to them. My issue is when a single cyclist rides with Mom,dad or luvvy driving just behind that one rider...my concern is it's only going to get worse. 5 years ago there were none, now it's common, who knows where 5 years will take us.

To be fair I've seen the Cycle Lab car help a few non-club riders out. Case in point a mate a couple months back was taken out by some **** on their tri bike, who also then rode off.
CL car was in the area and kept him shielded until EMS arrived.