New to Gravel racing - Help needed please

[Kris795]

On 5/11/2023 at 8:43 AM, Bub Marley said:

I got to say Im still confused about this whole gravel bike phenomena.

 

The thing now is to get a gravel bike and then fit the widest tyres possible. Some bikes even allow you to fit a 650 wheel with even wider tyres. Surely going this route kinda defeats the whole purpose of a gravel bike. The only benefit i can actually see is having drop handlebars over flats and even this limits your handling if the terrain is just a bit sketchy.

 

How much faster would a gravel bike be compared to an XC hardtail on a straight, flat road? Does this benefit actually outweigh all the other advantages you’d get with a hardtail?

 

I’ve never ridden a gravel bike before so genuinely curious.

I have to agree with you. I got myself a gravel bike and did not enjoybit at all. Very very sketchy going fast on a technical road. I just got rid of it again and I would recommend anybody going this route to really first consider a hardtail mtb.

[Bub Marley]

25 minutes ago, Kris795 said:

I have to agree with you. I got myself a gravel bike and did not enjoybit at all. Very very sketchy going fast on a technical road. I just got rid of it again and I would recommend anybody going this route to really first consider a hardtail mtb.

So I did my first gravel race this weekend on my hardtail. Honestly didn’t feel that much slower than the guys on pure gravel bikes. Unless the terrain is super smooth I don’t think there’s that much in it. On the tar, I definitely felt slower but the moment I tucked in a bit on the Farr bar it minimised the disadvantage. This disadvantage can also be reduced by fitting less aggressive tyres. I also felt the last stretch of the race with more narrower paths and more unevenness, I was way faster. I could literally fly through those sections compared to some people on drop bars. 
 

I have to say the Farr aero bolt on bars actually helped a bit. You can’t use it for very long at a time but if the terrain is nice it helps a lot just with a different hand position. And it’s definitely faster even if it’s not very long stints on it. I immediately dropped anyone on my tail the moment I tucked in. Compared to SQ innerbarends. I haven’t used this one but I think with those you can definitely use it much more because your hand is right over the brakes so you kinda in a drop par position. But the Farr aero is definitely faster just because you’re more tucked in. I think either one helps and would recommend it for anyone on a mtb doing gravel races. 

[Jewbacca]

hahahahahahaha

N+1 does not care for 'reason'

If you want a gravel bike, buy/build one. 

Being practical about buying bikes is an endless cycle (yes yes) of anecdotal opinions. 'I love my hardtail'... 'I love my Gravel bike'.... Both are opinions based on a feeling. Neither are facts.

Buying stuff, especially toys that possibly do or do not give people NOT functioning close to their optimal ability (Outliers excluded.... Waldo!) or close to optimal weight/power a teeny tiny advantage all comes down to an emotional curiosity or 'want'.

I personally don't see the gravel bike fad fading as stated, mostly because South Africans love to do stuff and say they did stuff. The more impractical the better. 'Oh, you rode Freedom Challenge? I did it too, on a Rigid Single Speed'.... 'Oh, you did Epic, I did it too on a rigid single speed in jeans and a flannel shirt!'

So people will ride their gravel bikes on MYB trails, at MTB/Horribly rutted races because hardcore. On the flip side they will ride the same gravel bike at Argus and do a sub3 so they can say 'Oh, CTCT? I got a sub3 on my gravel bike'

Practical has no place in this discussion. Be gone with all of you.

OP and those interested, if you want a curly barred bike that is exceptionally good at absolutely nothing in SA but can offer you bragging rights and a heap of impractical fun, buy one

[Mark6363]

On 5/21/2023 at 8:31 AM, Kom said:

How did you go?

Good fun - enough to keep a look out for a good deal for a third bike ( which means 2 bikes as I ride with the wife)😁. From what I gather from others, the gravel was in better condition to most other rides, so I see how a few comments have been "it depends on the conditions".. 

[Shebeen]

36 minutes ago, Mark6363 said:

Good fun - enough to keep a look out for a good deal for a third bike ( which means 2 bikes as I ride with the wife)😁. From what I gather from others, the gravel was in better condition to most other rides, so I see how a few comments have been "it depends on the conditions".. 

just because RvR is topical now. if you have the VO2 max of a pony then clearly a gravel bike was the weapon to use. not a shock to be seen in this meatwagon

 

[Cardio Goth]

14 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

just because RvR is topical now. if you have the VO2 max of a pony then clearly a gravel bike was the weapon to use. not a shock to be seen in this meatwagon

 

Except for the bike in position #2, you mean? 😃

[PhilipV]

18 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

just because RvR is topical now. if you have the VO2 max of a pony then clearly a gravel bike was the weapon to use. not a shock to be seen in this meatwagon

 

Except for the second bike?

[dave303e]

This thread has inspired me to monstercross the old hardtail. 

If there a way to run an XT 11 speed rear derailleur on a gravel shifter/brakes

[MongooseMan]

42 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

just because RvR is topical now. if you have the VO2 max of a pony then clearly a gravel bike was the weapon to use. not a shock to be seen in this meatwagon

 

I feel this pic illustrates the awesome of gravel bike flexibility. In amongst the "traditional" gravel bikes (dropbar + fixed fork) we have a flat bar with fixed fork (blue) and dropbar with suspension fork (orange). Anything goes, do what works for you

[Jewbacca]

30 minutes ago, Cardio Goth said:

Except for the bike in position #2, you mean? 😃

I also see flat bars 3rd from the back....... BUT..... out of 12 odd off the front, 11 have curly bars, 1 has a gravel bike with a short suspension fork and one has no suspension and flat bars. 

So absolutes aside, the general 'winning' formula was a gravel bike. Again though, who cares. 

Buy one if you want, build an ugly monstercross if you want, or ignore the whole vaaaib and ride the MTB. Buying/building an N+1 bike very seldom comes down to practicality. 

23 minutes ago, dave303e said:

This thread has inspired me to monstercross the old hardtail. 

If there a way to run an XT 11 speed rear derailleur on a gravel shifter/brakes

Yes.

It's called a TanPan

https://www.merlincycles.com/wolf-tooth-tanpan-inline-shimano-adaptor-161778.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-ZA&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=MTB+Gear+Cables&ucpo=88776

Edited May 22, 2023 by Jewbacca

[Skubarra]

21 hours ago, Bub Marley said:

So I did my first gravel race this weekend on my hardtail. Honestly didn’t feel that much slower than the guys on pure gravel bikes. Unless the terrain is super smooth I don’t think there’s that much in it. On the tar, I definitely felt slower but the moment I tucked in a bit on the Farr bar it minimised the disadvantage. This disadvantage can also be reduced by fitting less aggressive tyres. I also felt the last stretch of the race with more narrower paths and more unevenness, I was way faster. I could literally fly through those sections compared to some people on drop bars. 
 

I have to say the Farr aero bolt on bars actually helped a bit. You can’t use it for very long at a time but if the terrain is nice it helps a lot just with a different hand position. And it’s definitely faster even if it’s not very long stints on it. I immediately dropped anyone on my tail the moment I tucked in. Compared to SQ innerbarends. I haven’t used this one but I think with those you can definitely use it much more because your hand is right over the brakes so you kinda in a drop par position. But the Farr aero is definitely faster just because you’re more tucked in. I think either one helps and would recommend it for anyone on a mtb doing gravel races. 

My experience this weekend at RvR was very different.... Averaged close to 30km/h over 160km on my mtb only to finish back in the mid-bunch masses. Felt like I was at a constant disadvantage, whenever the peeps on the gravel bikes decided to turn-on the pace I was bleeding to hold on. Even on the rutted sections I did not feel that I had a clear advantage and on the more gradual climbs I was at a clear disadvantage (although that might be partly me being a crappy climber anyway).

The first half of the race when I was still hanging on to the sharp end of the field I noticed maybe 3 or 4 mtb's in a mass of gravel bikes - the trend is bleeding obvious to me. Seems I have to start saving for that N+1 bike!

[Cardio Goth]

24 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I also see flat bars 3rd from the back....... BUT..... out of 12 odd off the front, 11 have curly bars, 1 has a gravel bike with a short suspension fork and one has no suspension and flat bars. 

So absolutes aside, the general 'winning' formula was a gravel bike. Again though, who cares. 

Buy one if you want, build an ugly monstercross if you want, or ignore the whole vaaaib and ride the MTB. Buying/building an N+1 bike very seldom comes down to practicality. 

I'm in violent agreement with you on this @Jewbacca, I own, and ride very often, two gravel bikes - one set up for 'all road' and touring with 38mm Pathfinders, and one for races / chunkier gravel (with a Lauf fork and 42mm Rhombus tyres) - as well as a hard tail. 

Their use cases overlap and yes, I could probably replace them with one bike, but I like having the options, and I like over- and under-biking sometimes. 

For some context, I'm doing a 3 day, 500km bikepacking trip next weekend, about 50% smooth gravel and 50% paved - I will use my 'all road' bike for it. Three weeks later, I'm doing a 4 day bikepacking race, and I will use my hardtail. I'll be overbiked, but comfy AF. A month after that, I'm doing a one day gravel race that is almost entirely on gravel, some of it pretty chunky, and for that I will use my other gravel bike. I've ridden them all enough to know what they're best at, and I love that I get to nerd out about it sometimes.

[Shebeen]

41 minutes ago, Cardio Goth said:

I'm in violent agreement with you on this @Jewbacca, I own, and ride very often, two gravel bikes - one set up for 'all road' and touring with 38mm Pathfinders, and one for races / chunkier gravel (with a Lauf fork and 42mm Rhombus tyres) - as well as a hard tail. 

Their use cases overlap and yes, I could probably replace them with one bike, but I like having the options, and I like over- and under-biking sometimes. 

For some context, I'm doing a 3 day, 500km bikepacking trip next weekend, about 50% smooth gravel and 50% paved - I will use my 'all road' bike for it. Three weeks later, I'm doing a 4 day bikepacking race, and I will use my hardtail. I'll be overbiked, but comfy AF. A month after that, I'm doing a one day gravel race that is almost entirely on gravel, some of it pretty chunky, and for that I will use my other gravel bike. I've ridden them all enough to know what they're best at, and I love that I get to nerd out about it sometimes.

clearly you need a third gravelbike with 40mils on it

 

I feel much better about my obvious steel gravel/carbon hardtail overlap now.

even the wheels can swap on my setup.

[Cardio Goth]

3 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

clearly you need a third gravelbike with 40mils on it

Well, yeah, that goes without saying..

[splat]

2 hours ago, Skubarra said:

My experience this weekend at RvR was very different.... Averaged close to 30km/h over 160km on my mtb only to finish back in the mid-bunch masses. Felt like I was at a constant disadvantage, whenever the peeps on the gravel bikes decided to turn-on the pace I was bleeding to hold on. Even on the rutted sections I did not feel that I had a clear advantage and on the more gradual climbs I was at a clear disadvantage (although that might be partly me being a crappy climber anyway).

The first half of the race when I was still hanging on to the sharp end of the field I noticed maybe 3 or 4 mtb's in a mass of gravel bikes - the trend is bleeding obvious to me. Seems I have to start saving for that N+1 bike!

Did you feel disadvantaged because of the gearing or rolling resistance of your tyres ?
For Interest sake: what were you running ?

[Bub Marley]

3 hours ago, Skubarra said:

My experience this weekend at RvR was very different.... Averaged close to 30km/h over 160km on my mtb only to finish back in the mid-bunch masses. Felt like I was at a constant disadvantage, whenever the peeps on the gravel bikes decided to turn-on the pace I was bleeding to hold on. Even on the rutted sections I did not feel that I had a clear advantage and on the more gradual climbs I was at a clear disadvantage (although that might be partly me being a crappy climber anyway).

The first half of the race when I was still hanging on to the sharp end of the field I noticed maybe 3 or 4 mtb's in a mass of gravel bikes - the trend is bleeding obvious to me. Seems I have to start saving for that N+1 bike!

Perhaps it was different then in the 160km race where you have much stronger cyclists around you and obviously with a higher skill level.

 

In the 50 miler though, i thought my main real disadvantage was gearing where I would spin out. Would I have been faster though on a gravel bike? I think that’s probably a better question and also a difficult one to answer given that I’ve never ridden one so actually have no idea how it even rides. 

 

I can say though in the 50 miler the split was definitely more 50/50 i would say in terms of gravel vs mountain bikes. So perhaps the trend is leaning towards gravel but for now, it’s definitely with your stronger riders.