Around the pot: participants of the cancelled 2023 only get 20% discount for 2024

[ChrisF]

2 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

Around the Pot is in the middle of the rain season and has a been affected by rain multiple times in the past, I don't quite get why stating there there is a risk of a mud fest is so controversial for you?

Yes I am ignoring the covid years because I cannot comment on the weather of events that never happened.

2018 I was there, muddy & wet conditions initially but got better later as the sun came out.

I might lose out on an entry or have to pay extra if I leave entering very late, no problem with that. 

 

 

One might find the real challange with late entry is finding accomodation.... unless you are doing the tent thing.

[Shebeen]

23 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

 I don't quite get why stating there there is a risk of a mud fest is so controversial for you?

 

It's only controversial because you're cherrypicking anecdotal data.

Maybe I am putting you in that box of chops who say:"I'm not doing the argus because it was windy last year". Or capetonians who moan about the  terrible weather in general, it's flippen balmy where we live!

Winter rainfall here comes mainly in frontal systems, big storm for 2/3 days and then lovely sunshine for a week or longer.. So while July is "rainy season", you're much more likely to get a lovely day than not.

 

 

I don't have access to saws historical data, but this is probably satellite based with some local real world(CT airport) to tweak their algorithm.

https://weatherspark.com/y/85361/Average-Weather-in-Swellendam-South-Africa-Year-Round

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2024 by Shebeen
dbl piksha

[Skubarra]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

It's only controversial because you're cherrypicking anecdotal data.

Maybe I am putting you in that box of chops who say:"I'm not doing the argus because it was windy last year". Or capetonians who moan about the  terrible weather in general, it's flippen balmy where we live!

Winter rainfall here comes mainly in frontal systems, big storm for 2/3 days and then lovely sunshine for a week or longer.. So while July is "rainy season", you're much more likely to get a lovely day than not.

I don't have access to saws historical data, but this is probably satellite based with some local real world(CT airport) to tweak their algorithm.

https://weatherspark.com/y/85361/Average-Weather-in-Swellendam-South-Africa-Year-Round

Anecdotal, eish. Going to have to agree to disagree on this before we bore hubbers to death. If the bad weather trend turns around I am happy to change my mind on entering early.

[Shebeen]

so have people entered for this?

 

Considering taking up the 20% offer (assuming it's still valid!)

[Jackb]

I'm considering entering this for the first time on a gravel bike. I've done a alot of training so far and mad as it may seem keen on the 200miler. Has any one done it or know of someone who has? I'd like to know what they packed for the race, ie. gear, food and what challenges they had. Thanks

[Mamil]

3 hours ago, Shebeen said:

so have people entered for this?

 

Considering taking up the 20% offer (assuming it's still valid!)

I've entered the 200 miler although I'm definitely undercooked for the distance. If it rains though, I'm spending the weekend with gluvine and my kindle.

[olmec]

23 hours ago, Shebeen said:

so have people entered for this?

 

Considering taking up the 20% offer (assuming it's still valid!)

I really think that the message one sends by signing up is that its ok to lie to the good folks who make an effort to come to your event.  That its ok to make false promises and ultimately milk race participants.

I'm not ok with that, and am voting with my feet.  

(edited for precision)

Edited July 4, 2024 by olmec

[olmec]

19 hours ago, Mamil said:

I've entered the 200 miler although I'm definitely undercooked for the distance. If it rains though, I'm spending the weekend with gluvine and my kindle.

Good luck! I saw you at the Munga Grit and remember some of the challenges you're facing.

Its hard to support the race organisers and the folks who stole from us last year, but a fellow rider? Go go go and I hope you have the best time.

[ChrisF]

15 minutes ago, olmec said:

Its hard to support the race organisers and the folks who stole from us last year, .....

 

WOW !!!

 

Harsh statement .... 

[olmec]

4 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

WOW !!!

 

Harsh statement .... 

Yes; unfortunately true: The RD promised me a refund in person at the race village on the Sunday after the postponed race was cancelled.  I would have settled for a deferred entry, and grumbled lightly about a significant discount.

What we got was a discount less than the early-bird registration discounts typically offered.

The folks we were staying at for the weekend were a local supplier to the event.  The pr released shortly after the race said that they had to pay their suppliers in full, but the local supplier assures me that they weren't.

[Danger Dassie]

On 7/3/2024 at 10:35 AM, Shebeen said:

so have people entered for this?

 

Considering taking up the 20% offer (assuming it's still valid!)

In two minds, may have an opportunity to take on a friends entry. Just weighing up travel options in costs/logistics. 

Love the region, so regardless of weather it’d be a welcome escape.

[Rowl]

Will also be lining up, considering to just use a tent for the Friday evening. But looking forward to it. Hopefully the weather is good.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Rowl

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, olmec said:

Yes; unfortunately true: The RD promised me a refund in person at the race village on the Sunday after the postponed race was cancelled.  I would have settled for a deferred entry, and grumbled lightly about a significant discount.

What we got was a discount less than the early-bird registration discounts typically offered.

The folks we were staying at for the weekend were a local supplier to the event.  The pr released shortly after the race said that they had to pay their suppliers in full, but the local supplier assures me that they weren't.

If you feel strongly enough about this, then email him directly about what was offered and what has been delivered. I expected the discount to be larger, you might get some joy and it's win win for both parties.

I know it seems a bit redundant to mention this again, but the decision to postpone came from Disaster management. Cancelling the sunday seemed a bit soft from my side, we still rode the 100km route on the sunday. That was totally fine weather wise but on the bigger roads. I'm not going this year, mainly because I forgot I had already entered a trail run on the saturday!

 

[SSCC]

6 hours ago, olmec said:

Yes; unfortunately true: The RD promised me a refund in person at the race village on the Sunday after the postponed race was cancelled.  I would have settled for a deferred entry, and grumbled lightly about a significant discount.

What we got was a discount less than the early-bird registration discounts typically offered.

The folks we were staying at for the weekend were a local supplier to the event.  The pr released shortly after the race said that they had to pay their suppliers in full, but the local supplier assures me that they weren't.

You really need a reality check. If race directors were forced to refund all entries when a race is cancelled because of weather there would be no races. Zero. No events management company or individual would take that risk. They have expenses that they do not get back. Please stop thinking just of yourself and think of the broader bike community and all the people that make these events happen. 

[olmec]

35 minutes ago, SSCC said:

They have expenses that they do not get back

Hey SSCC,

Thanks for the comment—I don't think it useful for this forum to reopen the earlier discussions, and so I'll summarise a couple of key points and we can then all move on:

1. Events are for-profit exercises and there is a philosophical question mark over making a profit off a cancelled event;
2. Race finances are not declared nor open, and in addition to no-refund there is a question over the payment of event suppliers (thereby increasing the profit and incentive to cancel the race);
3. The decision to cancel the race on Sunday further supports the claims of #2 above, as the route was totally ridable on the following day;
4. There is event and liability insurance that can cover the costs associated with cancelling a race, it would require the disclosure of the event finances to the underwriter which is at tension with the incentive to cancel the race;
5. In addition to my own attempts to contact the race organisers to hold them to the promise made to me at the race village, I am aware of several others who have attempted the same;
6. This is not a selfish imperative that I am pursuing—the race entry fees were probably a small fraction of the costs directly attributable to that weekend—what this is is an uncomfortable conversation where the intentions of the race organisers are objectively examined.

The risk we run is that race directors will begin to cancel races at the slightest hint of inclement weather because the perverse incentive to do so exists.  That they can "go home early" having made more profit than they would have if the race had gone ahead.  It is becoming more and more frequent and the race participants and the folks lining the pockets of these race directors. That can't be right.

Finally, because this is all about riding, I wish all of you doing the event the absolute best time.  I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did; that the kilometres are smooth and full of as much adventure as possible.

[Skubarra]

24 minutes ago, olmec said:

Hey SSCC,

Thanks for the comment—I don't think it useful for this forum to reopen the earlier discussions, and so I'll summarise a couple of key points and we can then all move on:

1. Events are for-profit exercises and there is a philosophical question mark over making a profit off a cancelled event;
2. Race finances are not declared nor open, and in addition to no-refund there is a question over the payment of event suppliers (thereby increasing the profit and incentive to cancel the race);
3. The decision to cancel the race on Sunday further supports the claims of #2 above, as the route was totally ridable on the following day;
4. There is event and liability insurance that can cover the costs associated with cancelling a race, it would require the disclosure of the event finances to the underwriter which is at tension with the incentive to cancel the race;
5. In addition to my own attempts to contact the race organisers to hold them to the promise made to me at the race village, I am aware of several others who have attempted the same;
6. This is not a selfish imperative that I am pursuing—the race entry fees were probably a small fraction of the costs directly attributable to that weekend—what this is is an uncomfortable conversation where the intentions of the race organisers are objectively examined.

The risk we run is that race directors will begin to cancel races at the slightest hint of inclement weather because the perverse incentive to do so exists.  That they can "go home early" having made more profit than they would have if the race had gone ahead.  It is becoming more and more frequent and the race participants and the folks lining the pockets of these race directors. That can't be right.

Finally, because this is all about riding, I wish all of you doing the event the absolute best time.  I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did; that the kilometres are smooth and full of as much adventure as possible.

Few things worth mentioning

As mentioned earlier on the thread - the call to cancel the race due to weather conditions will be made by a safety officer / disaster management, NOT the race director. So this risk that you imagine of organisers cancelling races on a whim is unfounded,

Not giving refunds where races are cancelled on the day due to extreme is common practice for cycle races in South Africa, one can debate whether its fair or not but it is certainly not standard. (Look for yourself, google the terms and conditions of other big name races in SA)

Liability insurance is required for all CSA sanctioned races and does not cover refunds.

Event insurance might but is expensive, not required by CSA and to the best of my knowledge not standard in South Africa for cycle races.

As has been explained to you a few times, most expenses related to the event are incurred in the run-up to the event not necessarily on the day. The organiser "score" almost nothing if the event is cancelled last minute - cancelling a race last minute is not the profitable scam you imagine it to be.