the unofficial Cape Epic thread

[SwissVan]

On 3/24/2025 at 1:38 PM, ChrisF said:

 

 

@SwissVan do you know if a similar multi-tier pricing exists for sporting events in Europe ?

 

Not that I have seen, other than reduced fees for early entries where the price increases the closer you get to the event date.

 

Edit:

Looking at the Swiss Epic (August 2025) they have an early bird tier system, Feb to April CHF 3185 (+/- ZAR 66’000) for a team, April to June CHF 3350.

But nothing based on local or international that I see

Edited March 27, 2025 by SwissVan

[SwissVan]

10 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

 

No matter what the event organisers do, people will either agree or disagree. They are between a rock and a hard place. 
 

From what I gather, there was a shortage of water - big mistake. But there is no guarantee more water/water points would have saved the life lost.

 

This /\
 

[DieselnDust]

4 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

I was not there, but my ex was. I had to help with her physical and emotional recovery.

2017 I believe it was still under Kevin’s supervision. 

My comment is that back in 2017 when organisers did shorten a stage, there was a lot of negativity about making the world’s toughest race too easy and accommodating less accomplished riders.

Had current event organisers shortened stage 3 this year, people would have said the same thing.

The organisers are between a rock and a hard spot. Any decision made will be praised/criticised, depending on what side of the fence people are on.

I’m not here commenting about right/wrong or good/bad. Just saying that it’s not easy making these decisions, and it’s not fair to say the organisers do not care about the participants.

The organisers will always be in a polarised situation, I agree.

Stage 3 was already shortened from 92 to 78km with around 120m of ascent gain removed.

The issue at hand is not about these actions but was enough done in terms of rapid response.

The routingUp Pipeline and Boulder City is very hot even when the ambient is 25Degrees C. The sun beats don on that slope relentlessly from 9am in the morning till roughly 6pm in the evening. These is very little shade, not running water and only dry fynbos for shelter. I feel that sometimes #untamed bs clouds common sense and human health and safety guidelines.  This slope was hotter than Dubai on a summers day; my garmin recorded 51 degrees C. We should not have been routed that way and I'm saying that as someone who was only mildly affected by the heat on the day.

So when you start to rack up may damned if you do, damned if you don'ts and each time you push through with the same choice with every reoccurrence delivering worse results surely you have to consider that maybe the direction your decisions is taking you is flawed and dangerous? Surely

[mrcg]

I've only done one Epic (2017) - am I allowed to comment? (for completeness, I have done nearly ALL the SA races in the last 14 years (some times multiple times - don't worry, won't list them all 😉) . I also worked and supported on a few ACE's.

For me (disclaimer: these are my own opinions and do not translate into any fact for all at all), the Epic for the last 6+ years has seen a drastic decrease in overall value to the "general customer satisfaction" outside of the riding experience (I'll come back to this). 80% of the field is not necessarily experiencing what I personally think they could/should in SA, considering the level set by the early events, most notably Sani2c. The value proposition of the Epic is: world toughest MTB race, the Tour de France of MTB. Enter ye fools and pay a crazy premium price tag to ride "with" Nino the GOAT. Suck it up, toughen up and ride, or be spat out. F#$k the food, the comforts and extra costs - you are privileged to be here in the first place.

Before I get to the riding experience, let me state (again, only my own personal opinion), that each rider is such an individual (hence training plans copy and paste usually fail), that each individual who steps up needs to understand their own body, physique, history, propensities in actions, specific talents, adaptive qualities etc. etc. This will determine individual outcomes. There are riders in the top 250 ACE field who are very strong riders on flats and up the steepest gradients, but who still walk technical bits, or fall down switchbacks, or slow to a crawl in rock gardens. Not only due to lack of skills, but mostly due to this and then their risk/reward calculation. The further back in the field you go, the more the issues compound (preparation being equal-ish). However, you can take a life-time athlete, who has never ridden a MTB, but has a "feel" for riding, is not scared, used to possibly ride bmx as a kid, and within a good 3-6month period build him/her up to ride ACE and finish comfortably/top 300 teams. Ultimately, you can be a Mini racing in F1 race with the best tuned engine, chassis, tyres etc. - but you will be lapped many many times. 

So, I think the courses have become harder, because the racing focus is on the top athletes. Less kilometers, but more climbing per kilometer (not sure about this "fact"), way more technical and challenging. And this is the most important factor for ME to ride the Epic. The challenge of the course (taking away the ridiculous entry fee). I wasn't keen to ride this year (couldn't afford it anyway), because I knew most stages intimately (Durbanville Hills, Paarl). But if a spare, free ticket cropped up, guess who would be on the start line?

Anyway, my overall point is: the Epic is not for everyone. Most riders (mostly international) do not really know what they are getting themselves into. TIA. It is even harder for them, despite decent talent and preparation. For us poor locals (in all respects), we need to decide if we are looking for an ultimate challenge. Because, in my opinion, you do the Epic to "race". And here I mean, race yourself within the limitations of yourself or your partner. This needs to be your best performance, how well can you ride, how quick can you finish (all within reason of course). The Epic is surely not a participation event. Not for that price tag, and the REAL prospect of great harm possibly coming to your body (excluding death - nobody signs up for that!).

There are so many great events, who prioritise the gees, great rider experience, more "chilled" routes, better tent villages, food, limitless drinks (although that might have disappeared forever) etc. etc. - that is more for the mainstream rider.

Final disclaimer: this does NOT absolve the ACE of such poor organisation, off-bike experience, lack of interest of the sub-elite level rider etc. (see previous post of mine). But it is a clear "maximising for profit" event. Accept it and deal with it.

Forgot what my point was 😂

[Prince Albert Cycles]

7 hours ago, mrcg said:

I've only done one Epic (2017) - am I allowed to comment? (for completeness, I have done nearly ALL the SA races in the last 14 years (some times multiple times - don't worry, won't list them all 😉) . I also worked and supported on a few ACE's.

For me (disclaimer: these are my own opinions and do not translate into any fact for all at all), the Epic for the last 6+ years has seen a drastic decrease in overall value to the "general customer satisfaction" outside of the riding experience (I'll come back to this). 80% of the field is not necessarily experiencing what I personally think they could/should in SA, considering the level set by the early events, most notably Sani2c. The value proposition of the Epic is: world toughest MTB race, the Tour de France of MTB. Enter ye fools and pay a crazy premium price tag to ride "with" Nino the GOAT. Suck it up, toughen up and ride, or be spat out. F#$k the food, the comforts and extra costs - you are privileged to be here in the first place.

Before I get to the riding experience, let me state (again, only my own personal opinion), that each rider is such an individual (hence training plans copy and paste usually fail), that each individual who steps up needs to understand their own body, physique, history, propensities in actions, specific talents, adaptive qualities etc. etc. This will determine individual outcomes. There are riders in the top 250 ACE field who are very strong riders on flats and up the steepest gradients, but who still walk technical bits, or fall down switchbacks, or slow to a crawl in rock gardens. Not only due to lack of skills, but mostly due to this and then their risk/reward calculation. The further back in the field you go, the more the issues compound (preparation being equal-ish). However, you can take a life-time athlete, who has never ridden a MTB, but has a "feel" for riding, is not scared, used to possibly ride bmx as a kid, and within a good 3-6month period build him/her up to ride ACE and finish comfortably/top 300 teams. Ultimately, you can be a Mini racing in F1 race with the best tuned engine, chassis, tyres etc. - but you will be lapped many many times. 

So, I think the courses have become harder, because the racing focus is on the top athletes. Less kilometers, but more climbing per kilometer (not sure about this "fact"), way more technical and challenging. And this is the most important factor for ME to ride the Epic. The challenge of the course (taking away the ridiculous entry fee). I wasn't keen to ride this year (couldn't afford it anyway), because I knew most stages intimately (Durbanville Hills, Paarl). But if a spare, free ticket cropped up, guess who would be on the start line?

Anyway, my overall point is: the Epic is not for everyone. Most riders (mostly international) do not really know what they are getting themselves into. TIA. It is even harder for them, despite decent talent and preparation. For us poor locals (in all respects), we need to decide if we are looking for an ultimate challenge. Because, in my opinion, you do the Epic to "race". And here I mean, race yourself within the limitations of yourself or your partner. This needs to be your best performance, how well can you ride, how quick can you finish (all within reason of course). The Epic is surely not a participation event. Not for that price tag, and the REAL prospect of great harm possibly coming to your body (excluding death - nobody signs up for that!).

There are so many great events, who prioritise the gees, great rider experience, more "chilled" routes, better tent villages, food, limitless drinks (although that might have disappeared forever) etc. etc. - that is more for the mainstream rider.

Final disclaimer: this does NOT absolve the ACE of such poor organisation, off-bike experience, lack of interest of the sub-elite level rider etc. (see previous post of mine). But it is a clear "maximising for profit" event. Accept it and deal with it.

Forgot what my point was 😂

You made your point and did it well . This sentence “ the ACE is not a participation event ” 

[Dicky DQ]

On 3/25/2025 at 4:16 PM, Pandatron said:

I'm asking the question not making a statement.. but i will provide my own answer.

You should be arriving at ACE competently prepared in my view and have the ability to at least clear the cut off by 30 minutes.

Survival of just making it Waterpoint to Waterpoint day after day increases your risk exposure exponentially, there will definitely be days where something goes wrong and stuff happens.

But going or attempting to day after day in a completely blown state/dehydrated and then wondering why bad things happen, is doff.


 

A lot of all of this could be avoided by shortening the cutoff times and cutting the rider totally if the cutoff's are not made. No more continue tomorrow etc. This way you eliminate the do as little as you have to, to preparation attitude most humans have.

This will force riders to prepare better and then heat exposure and and and will be limited. 

But this or insisting on qualifying criteria will never fly due to limiting the initial field and $$'s

[DieselnDust]

8 hours ago, mrcg said:

I've only done one Epic (2017) - am I allowed to comment? (for completeness, I have done nearly ALL the SA races in the last 14 years (some times multiple times - don't worry, won't list them all 😉) . I also worked and supported on a few ACE's.

For me (disclaimer: these are my own opinions and do not translate into any fact for all at all), the Epic for the last 6+ years has seen a drastic decrease in overall value to the "general customer satisfaction" outside of the riding experience (I'll come back to this). 80% of the field is not necessarily experiencing what I personally think they could/should in SA, considering the level set by the early events, most notably Sani2c. The value proposition of the Epic is: world toughest MTB race, the Tour de France of MTB. Enter ye fools and pay a crazy premium price tag to ride "with" Nino the GOAT. Suck it up, toughen up and ride, or be spat out. F#$k the food, the comforts and extra costs - you are privileged to be here in the first place.

Before I get to the riding experience, let me state (again, only my own personal opinion), that each rider is such an individual (hence training plans copy and paste usually fail), that each individual who steps up needs to understand their own body, physique, history, propensities in actions, specific talents, adaptive qualities etc. etc. This will determine individual outcomes. There are riders in the top 250 ACE field who are very strong riders on flats and up the steepest gradients, but who still walk technical bits, or fall down switchbacks, or slow to a crawl in rock gardens. Not only due to lack of skills, but mostly due to this and then their risk/reward calculation. The further back in the field you go, the more the issues compound (preparation being equal-ish). However, you can take a life-time athlete, who has never ridden a MTB, but has a "feel" for riding, is not scared, used to possibly ride bmx as a kid, and within a good 3-6month period build him/her up to ride ACE and finish comfortably/top 300 teams. Ultimately, you can be a Mini racing in F1 race with the best tuned engine, chassis, tyres etc. - but you will be lapped many many times. 

So, I think the courses have become harder, because the racing focus is on the top athletes. Less kilometers, but more climbing per kilometer (not sure about this "fact"), way more technical and challenging. And this is the most important factor for ME to ride the Epic. The challenge of the course (taking away the ridiculous entry fee). I wasn't keen to ride this year (couldn't afford it anyway), because I knew most stages intimately (Durbanville Hills, Paarl). But if a spare, free ticket cropped up, guess who would be on the start line?

Anyway, my overall point is: the Epic is not for everyone. Most riders (mostly international) do not really know what they are getting themselves into. TIA. It is even harder for them, despite decent talent and preparation. For us poor locals (in all respects), we need to decide if we are looking for an ultimate challenge. Because, in my opinion, you do the Epic to "race". And here I mean, race yourself within the limitations of yourself or your partner. This needs to be your best performance, how well can you ride, how quick can you finish (all within reason of course). The Epic is surely not a participation event. Not for that price tag, and the REAL prospect of great harm possibly coming to your body (excluding death - nobody signs up for that!).

There are so many great events, who prioritise the gees, great rider experience, more "chilled" routes, better tent villages, food, limitless drinks (although that might have disappeared forever) etc. etc. - that is more for the mainstream rider.

Final disclaimer: this does NOT absolve the ACE of such poor organisation, off-bike experience, lack of interest of the sub-elite level rider etc. (see previous post of mine). But it is a clear "maximising for profit" event. Accept it and deal with it.

Forgot what my point was 😂

 

46 minutes ago, Dicky DQ said:

A lot of all of this could be avoided by shortening the cutoff times and cutting the rider totally if the cutoff's are not made. No more continue tomorrow etc. This way you eliminate the do as little as you have to, to preparation attitude most humans have.

This will force riders to prepare better and then heat exposure and and and will be limited. 

But this or insisting on qualifying criteria will never fly due to limiting the initial field and $$'s

Great points both if you

1) the epic is not a participation event - penny drops

2) Enforce cut offs- penny drops again.

For 1) this imo is absolutely true. You have to prepare to play. If you don’t prepare you are going to get hurt. I recall on stage 3 on the long descent to WP2 I took all the A-lines. When those lines merged back to single the riders on B actually expected me to slot back in behind them . I got shouted at. There was a lack of understanding of the rules of racing. They say, we’re not racing, we’re surviving. But there is a lack of preparation in riding skill, and understanding the rules. The reality is that the back of the field is a completely different event. 
 

on 2)

yeah this is actually the biggest safety lever the event management has. Personally I felt all cut off where easily achievable this year despite the heat, if the athletes prepared properly. But the technical skills are really quite poor  but many will ride a sub 3 Argust. As the course gets more and more technical those with a skills deficit will find it harder and harder to complete the course within cut off. 
 

there is no substitute for preparation. 
I’ll share a personal anecdote. I rode non of the course prior to the event but I live in Cape Town. This was deliberate because my team mate lives abroad so I figured a having too much of an advantage in terms of course knowledge would increase the performance gap even more. However I have ridden almost all of it at some time in the past so there some memory of the lines. When I compared my riding with my peers in J,K, L,M&N there was a huge gap stemming from approach to riding the single track to bike set up to physical preparedness. Back to cut offs. If the cut offs are tighter I think it will weed out the poorly prepared quicker and lower the risk to the event manager as the week wears on. They sort of do this already with a tough stage 1 and 2 but by pulling in the cut off an hour they achieve more and it will actually be in the interest of rider health and safety

[Dappere]

10 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

The organisers will always be in a polarised situation, I agree.

Stage 3 was already shortened from 92 to 78km with around 120m of ascent gain removed.

The issue at hand is not about these actions but was enough done in terms of rapid response.

The routingUp Pipeline and Boulder City is very hot even when the ambient is 25Degrees C. The sun beats don on that slope relentlessly from 9am in the morning till roughly 6pm in the evening. These is very little shade, not running water and only dry fynbos for shelter. I feel that sometimes #untamed bs clouds common sense and human health and safety guidelines.  This slope was hotter than Dubai on a summers day; my garmin recorded 51 degrees C. We should not have been routed that way and I'm saying that as someone who was only mildly affected by the heat on the day.

So when you start to rack up may damned if you do, damned if you don'ts and each time you push through with the same choice with every reoccurrence delivering worse results surely you have to consider that maybe the direction your decisions is taking you is flawed and dangerous? Surely

I think we can all agree that the organisers will always find themselves between a rock and a hard place. We can also acknowledge that some of the frustrations being raised here existed even when Kevin was still running the event.

That said, I’m genuinely curious—what were your motivations for taking on the Cape Epic? I get the sense that this might be the point that prevents us from finding common ground on certain aspects of this discussion.

[Shebeen]

is it just me, or where there basically no mechanicals in the elite fields this year? I know jobert/nortje needed to swap out a wheel from their backup team in one of the early stages, but that's about it. Didn't follow it as closely in the past, but can't really think of any that affected the racing. 

 

Things getting more reliable, or riders going for more durable stuff (ie. tyres/wheels)?

 

[Shebeen]

Just now, Dappere said:

I think we can all agree that the organisers will always find themselves between a rock and a hard place. We can also acknowledge that some of the frustrations being raised here existed even when Kevin was still running the event.

That said, I’m genuinely curious—what were your motivations for taking on the Cape Epic? I get the sense that this might be the point that prevents us from finding common ground on certain aspects of this discussion.

do you work for Epic/Ironman?

[DieselnDust]

3 minutes ago, Dappere said:

I think we can all agree that the organisers will always find themselves between a rock and a hard place. We can also acknowledge that some of the frustrations being raised here existed even when Kevin was still running the event.

That said, I’m genuinely curious—what were your motivations for taking on the Cape Epic? I get the sense that this might be the point that prevents us from finding common ground on certain aspects of this discussion.

Motivations? None really. I was asked. I accepted , I rode, i completed. The epic is not a motivator for me. Being fit and ready to ride anything is my motivation, obsession even 

[Dappere]

Just now, Shebeen said:

do you work for Epic/Ironman?

No, just here to have a discussion like everyone else.  

[Dappere]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Being fit and ready to ride anything is my motivation, obsession even

I completely relate to this—staying fit and capable of riding anything, while also connecting with like-minded people on the bike, is a major motivator for me. 

[DieselnDust]

11 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

is it just me, or where there basically no mechanicals in the elite fields this year? I know jobert/nortje needed to swap out a wheel from their backup team in one of the early stages, but that's about it. Didn't follow it as closely in the past, but can't really think of any that affected the racing. 

 

Things getting more reliable, or riders going for more durable stuff (ie. tyres/wheels)?

 

The prologue and stage 1 delivered fairly high sealant consumption according to Lance from Daisy way. I will just add that Squirt need to rethink their sealant, Dan it’s awful. Once they switched my tyres bsck to my regular Enduroseal I stopped getting latex showers.

there were unseen mechanicals. Some issues with electronic gears and suspension and fine dust getting into the system. 
tyre choices were fairly conservative across the board with Rekon Race and Pirelli Scorpion XCRC Prowall being very popular choices. 
overall I think SRAM had 90% of the drivetrain field captured with a few challenges relating to dust that they know how to solve. The tech zones seemed quite quiet wrt to broken wheel. Mechs were mostly busy with cleaning battery contacts and then the system worked again. I think mechanical Transmission will be perfect for Cape Epic going forward.

some broken pedals , can’t say if it’s more or less than previous years. SPD s still don’t work in mud yet remain the most popular system. There seems to be a resurgence in TIME ATAC uptake.

gripshift scale and well and probably most trouble free shifter for cape epic. 
broken saddles were also popular in the amateur field. Those 3D printed jobs from you know who don’t appear to be sttong enough for Mtb 

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, Dappere said:

I completely relate to this—staying fit and capable of riding anything, while also connecting with like-minded people on the bike, is a major motivator for me. 

I’ll add that during the event I added observing others behaviours as a learning opportunity became a motivator. Make use of the opportunity right. Chatting to riders about their prep, how teams formed , how they trained etc it was a big learning for me. I think I can say that we South Africans are the most well prepared for ultra events out of all other nations outside of the professional field. We seem to sink more headspace into our preparation than the euros or Americans I spoke too. 
the Spanish are the most quasi pro. I mean aero socks, tight fitting kit , low bmi but somehow no durability tells me they spend a lot of time only on road bikes and those who spoke English confirmed that. 
I took a lot of mental notes 😂.

you could say that as the event wore on, learning more became my motivator for each day. Riding behind people to observe instead of wanting to pass for free space and max enjoyment of the trails. I can do that another time 

[Dappere]

9 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

The prologue and stage 1 delivered fairly high sealant consumption according to Lance from Daisy way. I will just add that Squirt need to rethink their sealant, Dan it’s awful. Once they switched my tyres bsck to my regular Enduroseal I stopped getting latex showers.

there were unseen mechanicals. Some issues with electronic gears and suspension and fine dust getting into the system. 
tyre choices were fairly conservative across the board with Rekon Race and Pirelli Scorpion XCRC Prowall being very popular choices. 
overall I think SRAM had 90% of the drivetrain field captured with a few challenges relating to dust that they know how to solve. The tech zones seemed quite quiet wrt to broken wheel. Mechs were mostly busy with cleaning battery contacts and then the system worked again. I think mechanical Transmission will be perfect for Cape Epic going forward.

some broken pedals , can’t say if it’s more or less than previous years. SPD s still don’t work in mud yet remain the most popular system. There seems to be a resurgence in TIME ATAC uptake.

gripshift scale and well and probably most trouble free shifter for cape epic. 
broken saddles were also popular in the amateur field. Those 3D printed jobs from you know who don’t appear to be sttong enough for Mtb 

Squirt sealant isn’t great—I tried it once and never again. It struggles to seal even the smallest punctures.

I can’t recommend Pirelli’s Scorpion RC XC Prowall tyres enough. I’ve used them extensively across multiple races without any issues, though unfortunately, they’re now quite difficult to find in South Africa. My riding partner runs the Rekon Race and has had a similarly positive experience, with minimal problems. I stand to be corrected, but I believe the Rekon Race has been the most successful tyre at the Cape Epic, at least in recent years.

Regarding SRAM AXS issues, particularly with the new transmission, bent connector pins appeared to be a significant problem. I’m not sure whether this was purely due to mechanics having to service many bikes before the next stage, but it seemed to be a recurring issue.