Carrying while cycling

[Guest Mike Dewing]

2 hours ago, Mojoman said:

You are certainly right about guns not being for everyone...I feel that I am neither pro gun nor anti gun but unfortunately the country is crazy with crime, we have a school teacher heading up SAPS and one has to be realisitc, even if the cops were functional, they are still 5/10/15 minutes away and you are still on your own to deal with a situation.

Why I wanted to start this even though it’s controversial and I got flamed before for talking about it.. we live in a dangerous country and this needs to be talked about.. 

im not only interested in hearing about guns on bikes, I would love to know what and how you guys keep safe out there, do you only ride in groups.? Do you only ride where you are familiar with everything etc.? Do woman only ride in groups or with male cyclists.? We have to talk about these things so we can possibly look out for each other.. 

[Guest Mike Dewing]

4 hours ago, Wyatt Earp said:

Will say the same thing I always say.

If you are going to carry a firearm, be damn sure that you are prepared to pull the trigger.

Saying that, it’s always good to do a course, and no a one day crash course is not gonna cut it.

Repetition is key for natural instincts to kick in.
But I digress, most people could do well with a course that puts them in the right mental state for scenarios unexpected.

You need to bear in mind that you are dealing with bullies, and your actions will either make them lose control or not.

Most of them are pure opportunists and not as seasoned as people always make them out to be, which takes away their calm and has them on the edge, the moment they approach you

Your reaction and approach will determine what happens from here onwards.
 

 

Give me a knife and life is good.

**** can get frantic real quick and that’s when things go very wrong.. training courses are also about keeping your cool, keeping level headed when the adrenaline is rushing..

I’ve done courses where they make you run until you out of breathe, do push ups till you can’t possibly anymore, while you running they hit you with stuff and shout and light fire crackers and then make you perform like it’s nothing.. it’s harsh dude..

[Guest Mike Dewing]

2 hours ago, Wannabe said:

Dunno, never got to asking him.

But I agree, pick your fight, and this was not his fight. 

Sorry to say but that wasn’t smart.. 

there’s a certain amount of self preservation that happens.. I’ve been driving and the road was blocked by a car and about 4 rather large men were stood around an open bonnet.. I had my firearm but I stopped 50m away, didn’t like what I saw and u turned the hell out of there.. went a different route home.. just because I had a gun doesn’t mean I should get into or that I can even win a gun fight against multiple people..

logic

[Wannabe]

21 minutes ago, Bichael Dewing said:

Sorry to say but that wasn’t smart.. 

there’s a certain amount of self preservation that happens.. I’ve been driving and the road was blocked by a car and about 4 rather large men were stood around an open bonnet.. I had my firearm but I stopped 50m away, didn’t like what I saw and u turned the hell out of there.. went a different route home.. just because I had a gun doesn’t mean I should get into or that I can even win a gun fight against multiple people..

logic

Yes, it wasn't smart, and he paid the price for it.

Just a bit more context, this was in the early 90's in a wild west little town called Carletonville. Peoples attitude was different then, and tended to get involved when wrong things was being done. 

Today they look the other way and get away as fast as possible.

 

[Andreas_187]

I was very happy to hear about the mugger who slipped and fell to his death on table mountain. I will also be happy to hear about any bike-jackers who got shot by a cyclist. I feel nothing about a criminal losing their life, that's just too bad

[Guest Mike Dewing]

43 minutes ago, Wannabe said:

Yes, it wasn't smart, and he paid the price for it.

Just a bit more context, this was in the early 90's in a wild west little town called Carletonville. Peoples attitude was different then, and tended to get involved when wrong things was being done. 

Today they look the other way and get away as fast as possible.

 

Very sad when you do the right thing and pay the ultimate price.. my dog and wife depend on me too much, if I was single, I might be more excited to get involved.. 

 

[dave303e]

2 hours ago, BaGearA said:

Wasnt there a story in the late 10's about some bloke taking out two bike jackers and injuring another with a pocket knife ? 

 

That dude's comments on this would be very interesting 

One guy shot a bike jacker near old parks on the spruit from what I recall. 2019ish

[El Duderino]

3 hours ago, BaGearA said:

Wasnt there a story in the late 10's about some bloke taking out two bike jackers and injuring another with a pocket knife ? 

 

That dude's comments on this would be very interesting 

That was at Giba Gorge in Durban. Lone cyclist, armed with only a knife, fought off three atrackers, two of whom died. I knew the guy. He's a big unit. Dude was unfazed by the incident and the cops treated it as self defense.

Giba Gorge was my local trail when I lived in Durban. 

Edited May 16, 2024 by El Duderino

[Guest Mike Dewing]

11 hours ago, BaGearA said:

Wasnt there a story in the late 10's about some bloke taking out two bike jackers and injuring another with a pocket knife ? 

 

That dude's comments on this would be very interesting 

Guy at navworld told me about an incident in the cradle I think he said.. two guys and he had an extensive martial arts background, also big guy, took their knives off them and killed them.. 

I didn’t bother to look up if I could find anything about it.. so don’t know if it was true..

[Martin PJ]

12 hours ago, BaGearA said:

Wasnt there a story in the late 10's about some bloke taking out two bike jackers and injuring another with a pocket knife ? 

 

That dude's comments on this would be very interesting 

Lots of information about what happened on this old thread.

[Wyatt Earp]

15 hours ago, Bichael Dewing said:

**** can get frantic real quick and that’s when things go very wrong.. training courses are also about keeping your cool, keeping level headed when the adrenaline is rushing..

I’ve done courses where they make you run until you out of breathe, do push ups till you can’t possibly anymore, while you running they hit you with stuff and shout and light fire crackers and then make you perform like it’s nothing.. it’s harsh dude..

The biggest thing people need to deal with is their nerves and learn to stay calm.

Confidence is a massive boost to help with that.

But when the pressure mounts, people panic and even seasoned and trained martial artists become overwhelmed with emotion and panic.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

22 minutes ago, Wyatt Earp said:

The biggest thing people need to deal with is their nerves and learn to stay calm.

Confidence is a massive boost to help with that.

But when the pressure mounts, people panic and even seasoned and trained martial artists become overwhelmed with emotion and panic.

Dude! Long time no speak, hope you and the fam are well, man.

 

100% here here. Freak, I remember when I was taken for a joyride in my own citi golf back in 2007... Wasn't a lekker experience. Gun to the head for the whole time, luckily I got let out on the side of the freeway after they'd had their fun. 4 blokes, 3 knives and a gun. Hijacked while delivering pizza, of all things.... No way I could have done anything.

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Martin PJ said:

Lots of information about what happened on this old thread.

I wonder what happened to the legal case here.

Great post near the end of this one, which is still relevant:

 

  

On 9/5/2016 at 9:07 PM, Harryn said:

The general “gung ho-ness” of this thread worries me, so I thought I would weigh in on the general state of jubilation that the “cyclist won.” I assume that this will make me somewhat unpopular – so be it.

 

 

 

 

My concern is that the level of anger at the crimes to which we fall victim daily, seems to have engendered a perception that the use of fatal force is legally justified in every single circumstance. This is not the case.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not going to comment on this particular incident. The facts are not known, and I am not going to delve into conjecture.

 

 

 

 

 

That said, I thought it would be helpful (future reference) to attempt to unpack the requirements for self-defence. But,  do not construe this post as being legal advice – it is most assuredly not.

 

 

 

 

 

The general rule is that if you are the victim of an unlawful attack upon your person, property or another recognised legal interest, you may resort to reasonable force to repel such an attack. Any harm or damage inflicted upon an aggressor in the course of such private defence will not be  unlawful. This is the principle, but as is almost always the case in law, it is not  that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

The ambit of private defence (known colloquially as self-defence) is not unlimited. The requirements for a successful plea of private defence are divided into two main categories.

 

 

 

 

 

The first set of requirements are in respect of the attack. They are:-

 

 

 

 

 

1. The attack must be a positive commission or an act of omission;

 

 

2. The attack must have already commenced or be imminent. This means that if the victim has the time or the opportunity to seek other non-lethal / non-violent / (or less violent) forms of protection, he must do so. Pre-emptive attacks are not permissible. Fear alone is not enough to justify a defence;

 

 

3. The attack must be upon a legally protectable interest (life, limb, property);

 

 

4. The attack must be unlawful. (eg. you cannot defend yourself against lawful arrest).

 

 

 

 

 

The second set of requirements relate to the actual defence. The rules here are:-

 

 

 

 

 

1. The defence must be directed towards the attacker;

 

 

2. It must be a conscious self-defence action;

 

 

3. The defence must be specifically aimed at protecting a legal interest;

 

 

4. The defence must be necessary to avert the attack. A person is justified in acting in defence only if the attack cannot be avoided in any other way – it must be the only means available for warding off the attack. Where the threat is of personal injury, self-defence by means of force is not permissible if the threat can be avoided by means of escape or retreat.

 

 

5. The defence must be a reasonable response to the attack. The force used to defend against the attack must be proportional to the attack.  Excessive force will render the victim subject to prosecution / conviction.

 

 

6. The means used by the victim must not be more damaging than is necessary to prevent the danger / assault. 

 

 

As the far the protection of one’s property is concerned, one may use force (including, where appropriate, deadly force) in order to protect ones property. However, the use of deadly force to protect property is highly controversial and problematic. The right to life is constitutionally protected - so I would say that it not reasonable or proportionate to kill a thief to protect your ownership in your bike and your  IPhone, if your life is not at imminent risk.

 

 

 

 

 

Acknowledgment:: the legal requirements for private defence as set out above are as stipulated by Jonathan Burchell in his book, Principles of Criminal Law (4th edition, 2015, Juta) at pages  117 – 135.

 

 

[The Ouzo]

26 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

I wonder what happened to the legal case here.

Great post near the end of this one, which is still relevant:

 

  

 

you know whats really sad about this, that was 2016, 8 years later and its much much worse out there.

[Wyatt Earp]

1 hour ago, Captain Fastbastard Mayhem said:

Dude! Long time no speak, hope you and the fam are well, man.

 

100% here here. Freak, I remember when I was taken for a joyride in my own citi golf back in 2007... Wasn't a lekker experience. Gun to the head for the whole time, luckily I got let out on the side of the freeway after they'd had their fun. 4 blokes, 3 knives and a gun. Hijacked while delivering pizza, of all things.... No way I could have done anything.

All good.

My son turned 20 today, life has flown fast.

Hope all is good your side.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

1 hour ago, Wyatt Earp said:

All good.

My son turned 20 today, life has flown fast.

Hope all is good your side.

Jeeeepers creepers. Happy birthday to the not so little bastard. And it feels like only yesterday when you had people telling you you shouldn't be taking him to see a movie...

Mine's now almost 12. Time does indeed fly. Glad to hear you're still kicking and screaming, man.

Edited May 17, 2024 by Captain Fastbastard Mayhem