will king price cover my hubs

[BaGearA]

3 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Sure, I get that. My gripe is that if this means I'm going to spend an additional 20k on better wheels anyway then why not just fit better wheels from the outset? My thinking now is that nothing Spez tell me will convince me to buy another set of Roval wheels. I'll be shopping elsewhere. Why not do the decent thing and rather retain loyalty and ensure repeat business instead of chasing that one sale, or maybe the thinking is if you're not spending at least 100k then they don't really want your business? Either way, it's frustrating now having to source new wheels. 

Cause then the bike you bought would cost 20k more and then you might not think it such a deal ? 

 

Broadly speaking trek 9.7s come with ally wheels which really aren't great, 9.8s come with carbon wheels which are very good imo 

 

Both wheelsets share the same hubs and the hubs imo are dogshite 

 

The diff between 9.7s and 9.8s broadly speaking also about 20k 

 

 

Both are carbon frames tho.

 

 

I'm sure i could draw similar parallels with scott, giant and spez. Carbon wheels cost ching and adding them onto a bike that's good value doesn't necessarily up the value for everyone even tho the price climbs drastically 

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, BaGearA said:

Cause then the bike you bought would cost 20k more and then you might not think it such a deal ? 

 

Broadly speaking trek 9.7s come with ally wheels which really aren't great, 9.8s come with carbon wheels which are very good imo 

 

Both wheelsets share the same hubs and the hubs imo are dogshite 

 

The diff between 9.7s and 9.8s broadly speaking also about 20k 

 

 

Both are carbon frames tho.

 

 

I'm sure i could draw similar parallels with scott, giant and spez. Carbon wheels cost ching and adding them onto a bike that's good value doesn't necessarily up the value for everyone even tho the price climbs drastically 

To a degree. For the extra money I would be spending improving the wheels on my Stumpy EVO to a decent enduro spec I would be venturing into Commencal Meta territory which already comes with decent wheels. And had I the choice to spend that type of money maybe my choice would have been different. And I'm guessing that is the game. "perceived" value versus actual value. If it looks like a deal then it must be one, right? Or, after closer inspection, maybe not...

[MORNE]

13 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

When you get called fat without actually being called fat. 😂

Not at all. And well done for loosing a bunch of weight already.
 

look, thats also why those Rapidé wheels never buckled. A good quality, hand built wheel will always be better. Most alloy rims that come on cookie cutter bikes are only supposed to stay round up to the sidewalk on the way to the car in my opinion lol. It’s not just the spez ones. In many cases I dont even think you can buy aftermarket rims that bad to get built up (maybe Temu)

Edited July 8 by MORNE

[BaGearA]

9 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

To a degree. For the extra money I would be spending improving the wheels on my Stumpy EVO to a decent enduro spec I would be venturing into Commencal Meta territory which already comes with decent wheels. And had I the choice to spend that type of money maybe my choice would have been different. And I'm guessing that is the game. "perceived" value versus actual value. If it looks like a deal then it must be one, right? Or, after closer inspection, maybe not...

Yeah but to be fair commencal are one of the very very few brands offering ally bikes with high level spec 

 

So once you take the savings from a high level bike that has an ally frame vs carbon there's a chuck of change to be spent on wheels 

[Robbie Stewart]

2 hours ago, MORNE said:

Not at all. And well done for loosing a bunch of weight already.
 

look, thats also why those Rapidé wheels never buckled. A good quality, hand built wheel will always be better. Most alloy rims that come on cookie cutter bikes are only supposed to stay round up to the sidewalk on the way to the car in my opinion lol. It’s not just the spez ones. In many cases I dont even think you can buy aftermarket rims that bad to get built up (maybe Temu)

Thanks, I was also only taking the piss about my weight. I am in a bit of a training plateau at the moment due to various reasons - crashing, getting sick, all the rain, work. . .  I'm amping to get after it again.

Those Rapidé wheels really are good. I'm tempted to get a set again . . .

[Robbie Stewart]

14 hours ago, Zebra said:

I dont ride much technical, but QUITE happy with my ROVAL wheelset; they seem decent-enough, and LIKELY suit a number of riders on Specialized bikes - but not everyone…

Years ago, i bought a 2nd hand Epic comp carbon with Roval alu wheelset, and zero problems with them, whist not ‘pushing’ them, admittedly.

i know Bike Radar gives certain Roval wheels 4/5 stars, so i dont think they are totally crap (your words: rubbish)

and yes, your 07th Feb post - bent rim 2x (in one specific area) in 8-odd months, and then damaging it for the 3rd time in the same area (Conties), methinks you are possibly harsh on Roval!

Happy - requesting even - to be educated on where the rims lie on a scale of strength, etc, on the value-end of bikes…

Cheers

Chris

This is the type of environment I ride most often on my Stumpjumper EVO (pic below) , which is the type of environment it is advertised as being designed for. If I am expected to ride my bike as if I'm doing a leisure ride on gravel because the components won't live up to my "abuse" then can I please return my bike for a refund, because that's not what I signed up for.

Also, as I mentioned to Morne, I was running 40 psi pressure at the rear, so there is NO reason why that rim folded the way it did apart from just being rubbish.

I own two Spez bikes. The other one's Rovals also died a horrific death. Yes, I am a big boy, and I've lost 14 kg overall since January, and I rode my other Spez bike on a set of Rapide TR-36 wheels over these same rocks below many times before without ONE incident. Those rims have never been trued in all the time I've had them nor has a spoke needed tensioning. They still roll perfectly balanced. 

(not me, not my pic, just grabbed it off the interwebs for reference. I rode down these rocks on Saturday before the wheel died on a much smaller rock on a different trail.)

Edited July 8 by Robbie Stewart

[ChrisF]

On 7/8/2024 at 9:09 AM, Robbie Stewart said:

This is the type of environment I ride most often on my Stumpjumper EVO (pic below) , which is the type of environment it is advertised as being designed for. If I am expected to ride my bike as if I'm doing a leisure ride on gravel because the components won't live up to my "abuse" then can I please return my bike for a refund, because that's not what I signed up for.

Also, as I mentioned to Morne, I was running 40 psi pressure at the rear, so there is NO reason why that rim folded the way it did apart from just being rubbish.

I own two Spez bikes. The other one's Rovals also died a horrific death. Yes, I am a big boy, and I've lost 14 kg overall since January, and I rode my other Spez bike on a set of Rapide TR-36 wheels over these same rocks below many times before without ONE incident. Those rims have never been trued in all the time I've had them nor has a spoke needed tensioning. They still roll perfectly balanced. 

(not me, not my pic, just grabbed it off the interwebs for reference. I rode down these rocks on Saturday before the wheel died on a much smaller rock on a different trail.)

 

Are you confusing "marketing" with reality .... 

 

 

 

 

 

jokes aside ..... it should be fit for purpose.  And IF tyre pressures are so critically important for this type of application they really should provide guidance on what to use to avoid damage

[Robbie Stewart]

2 hours ago, ChrisF said:

jokes aside ..... it should be fit for purpose.  And IF tyre pressures are so critically important for this type of application they really should provide guidance on what to use to avoid damage

I'm just curious how suddenly everyone is insisting that tyre inserts are an absolute must for anything related to enduro / all-mountain-style riding. Yet, they conveniently forget that we've all been riding the same conditions for decades without tyre inserts, nor needing them. But suddenly it seems like the rims are made of butter. Or that the tyres are somehow softer. I dunno. Maybe I must eat even less than I already do and only ride soft trails without obstacles. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Those trails are called roads.

[BaGearA]

13 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I'm just curious how suddenly everyone is insisting that tyre inserts are an absolute must for anything related to enduro / all-mountain-style riding. Yet, they conveniently forget that we've all been riding the same conditions for decades without tyre inserts, nor needing them. But suddenly it seems like the rims are made of butter. Or that the tyres are somehow softer. I dunno. Maybe I must eat even less than I already do and only ride soft trails without obstacles. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Those trails are called roads.

Pro downhillers are still running 25mm rims and the vast majority have dropped inserts 

 

Even they can't keep up with the sponsors BS anymore 

[tinmug]

The OP said "... the rims because i heavily cased a jump."

Then our friend Wyatt Earp says "My advice would be that you tell them you rode in quite an aggressively rocky area, you heard spokes making a noise and inspected the wheels after the ride. Noticed the cracks and you want to put in a claim for a new wheelset."

Now perhaps I am wrong but this seems to fit my dictionary's definition of fraud quite well. Or did I somehow misunderstand the true meaning of the message, when Mr Earp suggested telling the R1 insurance company that a very different set of circumstances were at play?

Gee. And we wonder why insurance rates are so high. And I wonder why this statement didn't seem a little strange to anyone else here. 😑

[PhilipV]

On 7/10/2024 at 2:50 PM, Robbie Stewart said:

I'm just curious how suddenly everyone is insisting that tyre inserts are an absolute must for anything related to enduro / all-mountain-style riding. Yet, they conveniently forget that we've all been riding the same conditions for decades without tyre inserts, nor needing them. But suddenly it seems like the rims are made of butter. Or that the tyres are somehow softer. I dunno. Maybe I must eat even less than I already do and only ride soft trails without obstacles. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Those trails are called roads.

Naah, the Roval rims are okay. Not too heavy, not too light, not too weak, not too strong. And cheap for spez, so they get specced on their bikes. I managed to ding one Roval rim, on a rocky trail, while experimenting with low pressure. Not the roval’s fault. And that wheel lasted quite a while longer after that. including an Ezelduro. Arguably the rockiest riding around in the western cape.
Eventually replaced it with a Rapide. 

But let’s be honest Robbie, you knew you were going to replace that back rim eventually when you got the bike (I’m comfortable to guess that it’s the back rim.) 

my suggestion: 

Inserts are a crutch for the unskilled, but an insurance package for the highly skilled racers. Maxxis EXO tyres are good enough, if pumped hard enough.Minder Neanderthal, Meer feëtjie. 
learn to be softer on your wheels, Smooth is fast. Smoother is the beter path to progression than Faster. 

 

[Robbie Stewart]

1 hour ago, PhilipV said:

Naah, the Roval rims are okay. Not too heavy, not too light, not too weak, not too strong. And cheap for spez, so they get specced on their bikes. I managed to ding one Roval rim, on a rocky trail, while experimenting with low pressure. Not the roval’s fault. And that wheel lasted quite a while longer after that. including an Ezelduro. Arguably the rockiest riding around in the western cape.
Eventually replaced it with a Rapide. 

But let’s be honest Robbie, you knew you were going to replace that back rim eventually when you got the bike (I’m comfortable to guess that it’s the back rim.) 

my suggestion: 

Inserts are a crutch for the unskilled, but an insurance package for the highly skilled racers. Maxxis EXO tyres are good enough, if pumped hard enough.Minder Neanderthal, Meer feëtjie. 
learn to be softer on your wheels, Smooth is fast. Smoother is the beter path to progression than Faster. 

 

You've got me pegged. 100%. Well done. 

I'm conceding your point. And yes, it is the rear, and yes I knew it wasn't going to last. I was running the stock Eliminator GRID T7 out back which didn't last long, and replaced it with a new one a week ago. It had two rides on before it too died. I'm going back to Assegai / Minion DHR 2 with DD Maxx grip. And yes, I am built like a Neanderthal and ride like one too.  I'm just annoyed that my Rapide TR-36 runs held up so well and are still running as true as they day I got them. Why can't EOM stock be as good. But yeah, cost versus function I suppose. Probably the thinking is that aftermarket replacement is inevitable, so as long as they keep me running for a while it's all good? Oh well, like I said earlier, then the bike would be 20k more expensive and maybe not such a good deal then at that price point. It's all about economy of scale I reckon.

[PhilipV]

12 hours ago, Robbie Stewart said:

You've got me pegged. 100%. Well done. 

I'm conceding your point. And yes, it is the rear, and yes I knew it wasn't going to last. I was running the stock Eliminator GRID T7 out back which didn't last long, and replaced it with a new one a week ago. It had two rides on before it too died. I'm going back to Assegai / Minion DHR 2 with DD Maxx grip. And yes, I am built like a Neanderthal and ride like one too.  I'm just annoyed that my Rapide TR-36 runs held up so well and are still running as true as they day I got them. Why can't EOM stock be as good. But yeah, cost versus function I suppose. Probably the thinking is that aftermarket replacement is inevitable, so as long as they keep me running for a while it's all good? Oh well, like I said earlier, then the bike would be 20k more expensive and maybe not such a good deal then at that price point. It's all about economy of scale I reckon.

I could reuse the spokes when I rebuilt the Rapide onto the  Roval wheels on mine. So I taped the wheels together and transferred the spokes one at a time. A drill with a long bit helped the process a long. Saved rebuild and spoke costs. Might be worth checking out for your bike. And the Rapide rims are quite a bit stronger, at a slight weight penalty. Totally worth it. 
man’s also, the N-subs trails are hard on tyres. High speeds and sharp rocks ask more of wheels than the Boland riders riding mostly flow trails. 

[Robbie Stewart]

32 minutes ago, PhilipV said:

I could reuse the spokes when I rebuilt the Rapide onto the  Roval wheels on mine. So I taped the wheels together and transferred the spokes one at a time. A drill with a long bit helped the process a long. Saved rebuild and spoke costs. Might be worth checking out for your bike. And the Rapide rims are quite a bit stronger, at a slight weight penalty. Totally worth it. 
man’s also, the N-subs trails are hard on tyres. High speeds and sharp rocks ask more of wheels than the Boland riders riding mostly flow trails. 

I'm having the debate in my mind if I should carry the Rapide rims over to the Stumpy, but then I lose the mullet status on that bike which I am quite fond of. That 29" front wheel is all business and the 27.5" rear wheel is where the party is at and I don't really want to lose that. I would also need to re-use the original hubs because the Rapide hubs are non-boost.

But then I am also day dreaming over a set of Stans Flow EX3 rims laced to Hope Pro 5 hubs and wrapped in Maxxis Assegai / Minion DHR ii rubber.

[Shebeen]

On 7/10/2024 at 3:19 PM, tinmug said:

The OP said "... the rims because i heavily cased a jump."

Then our friend Wyatt Earp says "My advice would be that you tell them you rode in quite an aggressively rocky area, you heard spokes making a noise and inspected the wheels after the ride. Noticed the cracks and you want to put in a claim for a new wheelset."

Now perhaps I am wrong but this seems to fit my dictionary's definition of fraud quite well. Or did I somehow misunderstand the true meaning of the message, when Mr Earp suggested telling the R1 insurance company that a very different set of circumstances were at play?

Gee. And we wonder why insurance rates are so high. And I wonder why this statement didn't seem a little strange to anyone else here. 😑

um. ja you are not wrong. I could be making it up but I remember someone saying that insurance companies are starting to check social media/strava/race results etc. and putting two and two together when people tell porkies to get a claim.

 

methinks biketheft/chopshops is a much bigger issue for insurance premiums.

[PhilipV]

1 hour ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I'm having the debate in my mind if I should carry the Rapide rims over to the Stumpy, but then I lose the mullet status on that bike which I am quite fond of. That 29" front wheel is all business and the 27.5" rear wheel is where the party is at and I don't really want to lose that. I would also need to re-use the original hubs because the Rapide hubs are non-boost.

But then I am also day dreaming over a set of Stans Flow EX3 rims laced to Hope Pro 5 hubs and wrapped in Maxxis Assegai / Minion DHR ii rubber.

Do you still have the Camber? Putting the 29er wheels on the stumpy is probably as simple as swapping out end caps on those hubs. 
 

you can probably re-use the current hub and spokes. Those Roval hubs dt Swiss clones. Pretty good.