Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[Bro Derek]

One thing I keep asking is the whole 'experience' thing that gets thrown around so much.

The two suuuper experienced guys that have gone to multiple international events went as follows;

1. Got severe arm pump and went slowly down the bottom half and finished nearly a minute behind those off the front page

2. Didn't qualify for finals and make a massive boob of himself on socials but was there for the jol, despite the poopoo of having to convince the powers to let him go

The former is quite clearly not fit enough to be at worlds

As a parent, I would not want the latter to be influencing my kid as a young person trying to find their way in the humdrum of big events. He might make 'rad' videos, but his conduct is not one of influence and grounding for a youngster to learn how to succeed in the sport.

So it leaves many questions in terms of why it's beneficial for the hubbaloo to exist. 

Without chronically good talent, one could go to multiple world champs and still be rubbish.

Adding to this, is this environment actually positive for a 'kid' to experience?

I'm left dumbfounded once again why there is still a need to feel represented in a discipline where we have no real chance of being vaguely competitive

 

Edited September 13, 2025 by Bro Derek

[vanniri]

16 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

One thing I keep asking is the whole 'experience' thing that gets thrown around so much.

The two suuuper experienced guys that have gone to multiple international events went as follows;

1. Got severe arm pump and went slowly down the bottom half and finished nearly a minute behind those off the front page

2. Didn't qualify for finals and make a massive boob of himself on socials but was there for the jol, despite the poopoo of having to convince the powers to let him go

The former is quite clearly not fit enough to be at worlds

As a parent, I would not want the latter to be influencing my kid as a young person trying to find their way in the humdrum of big events. He might make 'rad' videos, but his conduct is not one of influence and grounding for a youngster to learn how to succeed in the sport.

So it leaves many questions in terms of why it's beneficial for the hubbaloo to exist. 

Without chronically good talent, one could go to multiple world champs and still be rubbish.

Adding to this, is this environment actually positive for a 'kid' to experience?

I'm left dumbfounded once again why there is still a need to feel represented in a discipline where we have no real chance of being vaguely competitive

 

At least your kid have an excellent role model in Greg Minnaar. I watched him cleaning a podium Norco bike himself. He truely understands what it takes to become successful in a sport which is by no means a money spinner. 

[Duane_Bosch]

On 9/9/2025 at 2:21 PM, W@nted said:

Based on the comments on the youtube video, he might have a career making films and commentating/interviewing other riders though.

As a spectator, I get the impression that he is there for the jol/vibes/beers/videos and not for the win. Just a comment, as I have no skin in this game

He doesn't really earn a living from "racing" as such. He gets paid by Fox Europe and Monster and is more of a "free racer" as they say. There's maybe 10 (probably closer to 5) people on the whole planet that can do the darkfest line, race hardline and race at a world cup level. Theo is one of them. Is he fast enough to race at the highest level? Absolutely! Is he fast enough to race at Worlds? Absolutely! Will he win. Probably not. Disclaimer. I'm a fan.

That track is SCARY AS HELL. I've ridden the top 2/3 of it (The bottom 1/3 can't be ridden out of races) and there are sections that I simply could not ride and slid down on my shoes and backside. The most impressive SA rider for me was Frankie Du Toit. Just making it down that hill in 1 piece is impressive. 

The whole track is STEEEEEEEP. And then there are even steeper bits. And then there are WTF bits. And then there sections that are steeper than any normal human can comprehend riding a bicycle down. You literally get the feeling of exposure the same way you get that feeling if you're rock climbing on an exposed wall.

Honestly it was a terrifying experience just being on that track. Once was enough to convince me that it was completely out of my league.

Edited September 15, 2025 by Duane_Bosch

[droo]

On 9/12/2025 at 9:44 PM, Bro Derek said:

One thing I keep asking is the whole 'experience' thing that gets thrown around so much.

The two suuuper experienced guys that have gone to multiple international events went as follows;

1. Got severe arm pump and went slowly down the bottom half and finished nearly a minute behind those off the front page

2. Didn't qualify for finals and make a massive boob of himself on socials but was there for the jol, despite the poopoo of having to convince the powers to let him go

The former is quite clearly not fit enough to be at worlds

As a parent, I would not want the latter to be influencing my kid as a young person trying to find their way in the humdrum of big events. He might make 'rad' videos, but his conduct is not one of influence and grounding for a youngster to learn how to succeed in the sport.

So it leaves many questions in terms of why it's beneficial for the hubbaloo to exist. 

Without chronically good talent, one could go to multiple world champs and still be rubbish.

Adding to this, is this environment actually positive for a 'kid' to experience?

I'm left dumbfounded once again why there is still a need to feel represented in a discipline where we have no real chance of being vaguely competitive

 

Bear in mind that the first ever prize for a MTB race was a bag of marijuana. 

[Bro Derek]

19 minutes ago, droo said:

Bear in mind that the first ever prize for a MTB race was a bag of marijuana. 

The Springboks also used to play matches for beer. 

Professionalism is here and all I can think about is Ali Larter in varsity blues in a cream bikini saying 'Things Change, Mox'

[Shebeen]

8 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

The Springboks also used to play matches for beer. 

Professionalism is here and all I can think about is Ali Larter in varsity blues in a cream bikini saying 'Things Change, Mox'

Watched this the other day, (if you know, then you'll know why).

 

Theo is featured as one of the athletes here, and it has a little bit of insight into what goes on with this as a sport/job.

He's found a way to make it work, living with his folks in off season and mostly in a van when in europe. Sure it looks like parties and beer, but there's plenty of hard times and sacrifice that happens in order for it to happen. 

It's not a lifestyle for everyone and would be so much easier to just get an office job. But oh so boring.

[Bro Derek]

3 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Watched this the other day, (if you know, then you'll know why).

 

Theo is featured as one of the athletes here, and it has a little bit of insight into what goes on with this as a sport/job.

He's found a way to make it work, living with his folks in off season and mostly in a van when in europe. Sure it looks like parties and beer, but there's plenty of hard times and sacrifice that happens in order for it to happen. 

It's not a lifestyle for everyone and would be so much easier to just get an office job. But oh so boring.

I still don't regard that or him as being a positive influence on kids, but my gripe (if it's even a gripe) is about the whole concept of going to worlds for experience. 

If the people going aren't going to be world beaters, what is the experience for, other than the jol?

So if we are going to Jol, then expect these things. If we are going to learn how to be competitive, then this isn't it

 

[droo]

1 hour ago, Bro Derek said:

The Springboks also used to play matches for beer. 

Professionalism is here and all I can think about is Ali Larter in varsity blues in a cream bikini saying 'Things Change, Mox'

While I understand this, the sport has some deep roots in counter culture and I, for one, would rather not see it end up here...

And I can't be the only one who misses the old Rob Warner.

Edited September 15, 2025 by droo

[Danger Dassie]

11 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Watched this the other day, (if you know, then you'll know why).

 

Theo is featured as one of the athletes here, and it has a little bit of insight into what goes on with this as a sport/job.

He's found a way to make it work, living with his folks in off season and mostly in a van when in europe. Sure it looks like parties and beer, but there's plenty of hard times and sacrifice that happens in order for it to happen. 

It's not a lifestyle for everyone and would be so much easier to just get an office job. But oh so boring.

Interesting. It’s a topic covered across professional sport, seen Eugene Oppelt discussing it a few times and take a very proactive approach.

Would be interested to hear a CSA take on it, like from @ians H2Sport the Technical Director/Convenor of Selectors? 
Or is that woke 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[Sally E Kirk]

1 hour ago, Duane_Bosch said:

He doesn't really earn a living from "racing" as such. He gets paid by Fox Europe and Monster and is more of a "free racer" as they say. There's maybe 10 people on the whole planet that can do the darkfest line, race hardline and race at a world cup level. Theo is one of them. Is he fast enough to race at the highest level? Absolutely! Is he fast enough to race at Worlds? Absolutely! Will he win. Probably not. Disclaimer. I'm a fan.

That track is SCARY AS HELL. I've ridden the top 2/3 of it (The bottom 1/3 can't be ridden out of races) and there are sections that I simply could not ride and slid down on my shoes and backside. The most impressive SA rider for me was Frankie Du Toit. Just making it down that hill in 1 piece is impressive. 

The whole track is STEEEEEEEP. And then there are even steeper bits. And then there are WTF bits. And then there sections that are steeper than any normal human can comprehend riding a bicycle down. You literally get the feeling of exposure the same way you get that feeling if you're rock climbing on an exposed wall.

Perks of the job😵 Monster girls follow you around - Les Gets World Cup August 2025.

[Danger Dassie]

4 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

I still don't regard that or him as being a positive influence on kids, but my gripe (if it's even a gripe) is about the whole concept of going to worlds for experience. 

If the people going aren't going to be world beaters, what is the experience for, other than the jol?

So if we are going to Jol, then expect these things. If we are going to learn how to be competitive, then this isn't it

 

So every athlete there not on the podium is there for a jol? 
Maybe some some ‘officials’ but not self funded riders/support staff. 

[Shebeen]

7 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

I still don't regard that or him as being a positive influence on kids, but my gripe (if it's even a gripe) is about the whole concept of going to worlds for experience. 

The kids LOVE him! Why, because he is cool, sponsored, does massive airs, on youtube? 

Well all that, but mainly because he actually has time for them. All of them, be it selfie pics signing shirts or cracking jokes. He does drop too many FBombs on social media for this age group (maybe that is the plan!).

random pic from Darkfest this year,

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

If the people going aren't going to be world beaters, what is the experience for, other than the jol?

might not be directly relevant here, but 10+yrs of being outside the top20 surely played a part in Candace Lill getting onto World Cup podiums. She could quite easily have packed it in on multiple occasions.

 

7 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

So if we are going to Jol, then expect these things. If we are going to learn how to be competitive, then this isn't it

That is a good point, but we won't move beyond that. 

[Duane_Bosch]

18 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

I still don't regard that or him as being a positive influence on kids, but my gripe (if it's even a gripe) is about the whole concept of going to worlds for experience. 

If the people going aren't going to be world beaters, what is the experience for, other than the jol?

So if we are going to Jol, then expect these things. If we are going to learn how to be competitive, then this isn't it

 

The problem us saffers have is we've been spoiled with Greg and think that only guys that have a legit shot at the win should race at worlds. There's maybe 5 guys right now that are in with a chance of a win. And maybe 10 who have a legitimate shot at the podium. If only those people raced the whole thing would be over in an afternoon.

Theo is a world class rider who fulfilled CSA's criteria and fully deserves to be there. He's a multi time SA champion and when he tips in to a race run he's not "having a jol" He's going as hard as he possibly can. 

The way he earns his living is a different thing entirely.

[SwissVan]

1 hour ago, Bro Derek said:

I still don't regard that or him as being a positive influence on kids, but my gripe (if it's even a gripe) is about the whole concept of going to worlds for experience. 

If the people going aren't going to be world beaters, what is the experience for, other than the jol?

So if we are going to Jol, then expect these things. If we are going to learn how to be competitive, then this isn't it

 

Not directed at you Bro, just a comment on the topic in general

If I an athlete meets the criteria from the local governing body and is selected to go to worlds or whatever, then they should go if they can. It’s not only about winning, or learning to win, many athletes train hard and makes sacrifices to be the best in their respective countries, being selected is a goal and reward. There can be only 1 winner out of a few potential winners, and many competitors, but that does not mean everyone else should stay at home

This going to learn thing is a tired argument in many debates like this in many different sports, not just cycling. I don’t think any solution has been found yet, maybe it doesn’t need a solution? 

[ians H2Sport]

1 hour ago, Danger Dassie said:

Interesting. It’s a topic covered across professional sport, seen Eugene Oppelt discussing it a few times and take a very proactive approach.

Would be interested to hear a CSA take on it, like from @ians H2Sport the Technical Director/Convenor of Selectors? 
Or is that woke 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Dude, I'm not involved with CSA

[Duane_Bosch]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

Watched this the other day, (if you know, then you'll know why).

 

 

This is a bit more heavy after the passing of Graham Howes.

Edited September 15, 2025 by Duane_Bosch