A question for roadies

[sirmoun10goat]

4 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

For me when DRIVING, it makes a difference as it is easier to spot cyclists.  Especially flashing lights.

 

 

 

As a cyclist .... I have had distracted drivers pull out right in front of me, while I had two flashing front lights.

 

Lights help, but it is up to the driver to pay attention .... yea I know .... 

as a cyclist, you pay more attention looking out for cyclists, and you may see a cyclist with a light more easily 

 

but to the non cycling community who are not looking out for cyclists, a flashy light or not will have zero impact 

i live in Vancouver. roads are far safer, people are law abiding, but I have had several close calls while running with flashing lights. unless people or consciously looking out for a cyclist/runner, the lights make no difference 

[Chadvdw67]

6 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

as a cyclist, you pay more attention looking out for cyclists, and you may see a cyclist with a light more easily 

 

but to the non cycling community who are not looking out for cyclists, a flashy light or not will have zero impact 

i live in Vancouver. roads are far safer, people are law abiding, but I have had several close calls while running with flashing lights. unless people or consciously looking out for a cyclist/runner, the lights make no difference 

How do you know this? Did you get out and ask the drivers?

 

Whether it actually makes a difference or not is not the important part, the important part is trying your best to make sure you are visible. The fashion statement of riding a "clean and sleek" looking bike will mean diddlysquat when you are smeared across the tarmac.

Edited Tuesday at 03:28 AM by Chadvdw67

[RobynE]

Lights don’t make me feel invincible - when in the presence of cars I still feel like I need to have crayfish eyes and have my own wits about me. Driver behaviour can never be predicted. 
 

Maybe it comes from a horse riding background where people literally don’t see a horse and rider on the road, and/or see a horse as a machine that doesn’t have its own mind and behaviours. Even at low speeds a horse/vehicle collision carries massive risk to all and horses, with their own brains, are never truly predictable. A horse may not mind a dump truck passing but a rogue plastic bag may make them leap in front of traffic despite the rider’s best efforts or the horse being generally rock solid. So passing wide and slow is really all we have and we need to be visible. 

 

I know lights and bright colours make me more visible. They don’t make lights for horse riding but there are quite a lot of hi-viz bibs, leg guards, rugs, hat covers, etc. These things definitely save lives.
 

It doesn’t mean incidents don’t happen regardless but if I’m bright and/or flashy I hope it will catch the eye of someone who otherwise would not have noticed me at all. Whether on horses or bikes. 

[Pieter-za]

Why do some riders (MTBers?) ride with absolutely blinding front flashing lights?  (Higher intensity is not directly proportional to safety etc - there is an optimum point of intensity.  I have seen some some lights on bicycles that have more intensity than vehicle's main beams on bright - that is just stupid.)

It is in no one's interested to be blinded, and it has been shown that a flashing light can disoriented oncoming traffic, make it difficult to situational place the object, etc.

Edited Tuesday at 07:32 AM by Pieter-za

[Robbie Stewart]

6 minutes ago, Pieter-za said:

Why do some riders (MTBers?) ride with absolutely blinding front flashing lights?  (Higher intensity is not directly proportional to safety etc - there is an optimum point of intensity.  I have seen some some lights on bicycles that have more intensity than vehicle's main beams on bright - that is just stupid.)

It is in no one's interested to be blinded, and it has been shown that a flashing light can disoriented oncoming traffic, make it difficult to situational place the object, etc.

I ride MTB and when I ride on the road at least 50% of the ride is on the West Coast cycle path. The amount of people riding there with flashing lights boggles my mind. It is highly annoying for oncoming riders especially, yet these folks just carry on doing their level best to try and extract an epileptic attack from one poor unfortunate soul. I will say however that the split between roadies and mountain bikers using this stupid tactic is pretty much even from my experience.

I have a Marvel front light that has all these options, and I only ever use the flashing feature when I cross the R27 at the Table Bay mall, because I have noticed that traffic has zero problems to cross over my path despite me having right of way. That is when I switch the light to the most apoplectic flashing mode and lift the beam to shine directly into the drivers field of view so that I momentarily harass them to let them know to remain stopped and let me pass. It works a charm, but keeping it in that state drains the battery faster than a fat man stuffs his face at a buffet braai.

[ChrisF]

37 minutes ago, Pieter-za said:

Why do some riders (MTBers?) ride with absolutely blinding front flashing lights?  (Higher intensity is not directly proportional to safety etc - there is an optimum point of intensity.  I have seen some some lights on bicycles that have more intensity than vehicle's main beams on bright - that is just stupid.)

It is in no one's interested to be blinded, and it has been shown that a flashing light can disoriented oncoming traffic, make it difficult to situational place the object, etc.

 

People should take two seconds to learn the functions of their lights.

 

An off-beat flash for the rear is my preferance.

 

Front, a nice slow flash - pointed slightly DOWN.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:06 AM by ChrisF

[RobynE]

44 minutes ago, Pieter-za said:

Why do some riders (MTBers?) ride with absolutely blinding front flashing lights?  (Higher intensity is not directly proportional to safety etc - there is an optimum point of intensity.  I have seen some some lights on bicycles that have more intensity than vehicle's main beams on bright - that is just stupid.)

It is in no one's interested to be blinded, and it has been shown that a flashing light can disoriented oncoming traffic, make it difficult to situational place the object, etc.

Do you mean on bike trails? 
 

I don’t use lights on trails but on road in daylight hours I use the lowest lumen front flash. At night I use a steady beam directed in front of me to see where I’m going. I end up lighting up a bit of my front tyre and the rest of the beam is in front of me lighting up the path. 
 

I can’t really see the point of using front flashing lights at night - I’d moer into a pothole or kerb from my own disorientation, so my own safety isn’t mitigated, never mind drivers getting blinded. 

[ChrisF]

2 minutes ago, RobynE said:

Do you mean on bike trails? 
 

I don’t use lights on trails but on road in daylight hours I use the lowest lumen front flash. At night I use a steady beam directed in front of me to see where I’m going. I end up lighting up a bit of my front tyre and the rest of the beam is in front of me lighting up the path. 
 

I can’t really see the point of using front flashing lights at night - I’d moer into a pothole or kerb from my own disorientation, so my own safety isn’t mitigated, never mind drivers getting blinded. 

 

Most probably the section of tar to and from the trails.

[RobynE]

11 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

as a cyclist, you pay more attention looking out for cyclists, and you may see a cyclist with a light more easily 

 

but to the non cycling community who are not looking out for cyclists, a flashy light or not will have zero impact 

Can’t say I agree here. I think you notice things if you are a defensive driver. I am constantly scanning my periphery for hazards. I am about as far away from a runner as you can get but I notice all joggers, walkers, etc. The ones wearing bright colours or using lights, I notice first/faster, and likewise with cyclists. I also put my phone down in the car and don’t look at it, nor answer calls.
 

As a rider or pedestrian I’m defensive as well. I never stop scanning the environment and I need to do it for my child as well. Maybe it’s some sort of trauma response 😂 
 

My behaviour with the phone in the car comes as a result of several what I would call near-misses over 26 years of driving where my lack of attention could have caused someone else’s maiming or death. I try to do better now. Doesn’t make me infallible. I try to be fair to all road users by committing to focus on the road, and I hope they’ll be fair to me whether I’m in a car or self-propelled 😊 But I also know that many road users don’t commit to focusing on the road, so I turn into a mini lighthouse. 

[The Ouzo]

11 hours ago, sirmoun10goat said:

as a cyclist, you pay more attention looking out for cyclists, and you may see a cyclist with a light more easily 

 

but to the non cycling community who are not looking out for cyclists, a flashy light or not will have zero impact 

i live in Vancouver. roads are far safer, people are law abiding, but I have had several close calls while running with flashing lights. unless people or consciously looking out for a cyclist/runner, the lights make no difference 

your history of posting on this forum is very troll like, but, for the sake of this discussion I will bite.

 

Years ago in SA, only motor cycles had lights on during the day. Why? for better visibility.

Enter late 90's early 2000s and Volvo, a brand that prides itself on safety, determines that a car with lights on during the day is more visible and hence safer. Hello daytime running lights now fitted to the majority of vehicles.

A distracted driver is a distracted driver, but lights have been proven to make a vehicle (motorised on otherwise) more visible on the road.

 

I would rather carry the extra few hundred grams and be ever so slightly less aero in order to be more visible, than take a chance and risk being put into a grave.

[Pieter-za]

26 minutes ago, RobynE said:

Do you mean on bike trails? 

No - normally to be found in the suburbs of Centurion & Pta.  (Solo) Roadies sometimes, but from my experience more prevalent under MTB-ers, and more often than not riding in groups.

[RobynE]

1 hour ago, Pieter-za said:

No - normally to be found in the suburbs of Centurion & Pta.  (Solo) Roadies sometimes, but from my experience more prevalent under MTB-ers, and more often than not riding in groups.

Must be honest it’s not something I’ve seen - I don’t see too many mtbers out in groups near me, but living close to Cedar Road and working from home, I see masses and masses of group and solo roadies and all of the publicised incidents in my area have been roadies (on road bikes) with the occasional commuter.
 

Of course most of the two wheel incidents around here are Checkers60 and Takealot 🏍️ 🛵 In fact just yesterday a Takealot dude drove into the back of one of my vehicles and broke the left taillight. Rider distracted in stop-start traffic and crunch. Thankfully no-one injured. 

[mecheng89]

4 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

People should take two seconds to learn the functions of their lights.

 

🤣😅An off-beat flash for the rear is my preferance.

 

Front, a nice slow flash - pointed slightly DOWN.

 

1 and 2 and and 

[Reinhold]

I use my rear tail light in the mornings going to work and home time after work.

 

[Paul Ruinaard]

On 1/27/2025 at 2:40 PM, Spinnekop said:

Obviously you need lights for riding at night.

So talking about DAYLIGHT time.......:
I see the French have banned all flashing lights.
And Germany implemented law that only allows for lights below a certain lumen count.

Lights can be both good and bad.

As for safety. 
Having ridden for 30 years plus mainly as a roadie covering around 15 000km a year, I can honestly say a light dont mean diddly squat.
It is not that cars dont see you........their attention is just not out on the road.....light or no light.

Cellphones made it worse and uber in SA doubled the problem.

Again.  Talking about lights use during the day and these are just my experiences as a roadie

I would debate your assertions  also having done many years as well on many formats and also seen the stats on the road about the majority is the guy who did not see you from behind something like a Garmin Varia makes a hell of a difference. Because it changes pattern and intensiies. Same with Garmin headlights.

Clearly you cant avoid a distracted driver or a person who conciously decides to ignore you - lights arent going to help much. 

BUT my experience has shown lights during the day makea  difference - especialy strobing lights. Just this last weekend I had a car pull out to overtake in to the group of oncoming cyclists I was in which then aborted and i can only assume it was because of a strobing headlights. Decided against it. Without the headlights the chances are he would have gone ahead as maybe he had not seen us.

Its like the guy says - you can't stop and ask him whether he would have done something that would have hurt or killed you but you also may have saved that from happening and for me that is enough.

However having spent lots of time on motorbikes you learn front lights make a difference. Hi Viz vests etc all add to it. As do different coloured lights outside of what you normally expect oncoming or receding.

Defensive rdiing also teaches you that people pay attention to strobing lights or lights that  move side to side - which is why advanced motorcycling tells you to waggle the steering slightly  and move your lights when approaching an intersection if there is a car crosisng from a T junction as this will get the atention of someone who may be tired or distracted or not paying attention. 

If I flash a light at you or move it side to side you will likely pay it attention and notice there is a bike behind it or a group of cyclists and that may make you think twice about running the light, stopping or overtaking. And that may be all it takes to avoid the next possible outcome of an accident.

TBH I dont know how many times my little front strobing light has saved me - maybe none - maybe many times. Thats okay. One is all I need.

Given that in the eternal war between cars and bikes - cars will always win in an accident, you need to do whatever you can to improve the odds in your favour.

Ride with headlights and tail lights.  I can assure you that the one time the strobing head  light gets notice may be the one time that its needed and  it saves your life as there is never a scorecard where you know about the times it saved you and the near misses your precautionary actions averted. 

Thats why 19 year olds go to war - its because they believe its the other guy who gets killed.  Rather than rely on opinions or pop culture which are really not backed by fact, why not stack the odds in your favour just a ittle bit and add a bike headlight that strobes and also has a changing pattern.

As I said one save from a life altering or fatal accident is all I need to justify my use.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:45 PM by Paul Ruinaard