R400k Bikes, Deconstruct for Discount? Discussion on bike pricing.

[Ozzie NL]

Sjoe, it's amazing what a bike price tag can initiate

[IceCreamMan]

45 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

Well there are blurred lines here.

An Italian sports car is still unnecessary and only worth something because people are taught to believe that going fast and looking cool are, well, cool

Separate it into daily/urban car use and sport. In the former that car can't legally drive fast enough to be appreciated so you're either speeding and endangering the lives of other road users while making a terrible amount of noise or you're peacocking. 

In the sport aspect, motorsport is an archaic fossil fuel burning waste of resource. In a time where we have little maneuverability in terms of climate change, burning excessive amounts of fossil fuel is 100% unnecessary and should be frowned upon instead of glorified. 

But, people still love the idea that Marlboro and James dean sold them so they 'love' the growl of a V8 etc... Motorsport should be systematically shut down and boxed in the same vain as gladiator battles to the death have been. 

Something that was thoroughly enjoyed in the past but in todays climate isn't justifiable. 

I know I will be called a lot of things for this, but societies that have done their best to reduce the use of combustion single person private cars are far better for it. In many ways, but one overlooked aspect is the social and space usage side. 

I do agree that a 400k push bike is a waste of  money, but I think any 'performance' car is also a waste of money 

 

What about cheaper items but still expensive if that makes sense….that high end Garmin Fenix 8 pro, the edge 1050, that Woolworths peanut butter. 
 

it’s the same thing. Innit?

 

I make no bones about the fact I like some high end products, a lush double/triple ply, a nice shaving cream etc. 

Edited October 15, 2025 by IceCreamMan

[LazyTrailRider]

On 10/14/2025 at 3:42 PM, DieselnDust said:

unfortunately many of these "New" are financed from the housing bond

Do you store your cash in a savings account, where it earns less interest than CPI?

Bonds are where plenty of people with lots of money stash their cash. There is no such thing as money without opportunity cost, it always either earns a return, or it does not. If you're taking cash out of an investment portfolio, you're giving up the return it could have earned there. If you're taking it out of a bond, you're giving up the interest savings (on an appreciating asset in most cases) it could have earned there.

Your original statement looking down on someone drawing cash from a bond means that technically, the only people who genuinely can afford toys like bicyles used for sport are those with zero debt and annuity income from investments with zero replenishment of capital required. Basically, people who have enough money that they don't need to work and can live off interest.

[IceCreamMan]

You either have the money for the 400k bike or you have the bike, you can’t have both. 

[Bro Derek]

2 hours ago, Ozzie NL said:

Sjoe, it's amazing what a bike price tag can initiate

 

[Eugene Oppelt]

Hehehe

[RoadNoob6]

Guys  this thread has delivered, philosophy, memes, ranting, economics, industry news, and a good old Lance Armstrong joke. I love Bikehub. ❤️

[Paul Ruinaard]

22 hours ago, splat said:

I thought that KTM's were the unit of measure in these conversations 

 

16 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

What about cheaper items but still expensive if that makes sense….that high end Garmin Fenix 8 pro, the edge 1050, that Woolworths peanut butter. 
 

it’s the same thing. Innit?

 

I make no bones about the fact I like some high end products, a lush double/triple ply, a nice shaving cream etc. 

Triple ply non negotiable. Shaving cream no question there is direct marginal utility in those. 1050 I wnat, 1030 PLus  rationalise as my eyesite is getting worse and i need the big screen. Fenix 6 was 7 years old so an 8 was a major step factor improvement. Like I said,  I am a poster child for this. Garmin Varia Tail Light for safety. Sworks may be on a frame or two with SRAM AXS on both road and mountain.

BTW I must confess to having done the equivalent of this in 2001 when Alan van Heerden still had the Colnago agency in Jhb. I just recently sold the bike actually. He managed to upsell me on to the ultimate bike at the time by using my own technique I learned later - basically telling me it was likely out of my bracket and too much bike for me. I came away with a Carbon C 40 with Campag 10 Speed Record on it and Campag Nucleons - which in the day was the equivalent of todays R 400k Colnago. There was nothing else you could have fitted.  I think it cost about R 45k to R 60k back in the day which was a pornographic amount of money for me to blow on a bicycle as my house cost R 420k 3 years before but hey the house was paid for and I was young, dumb, quite fit and wanted it and had hit a streak of good forune so had some cash.

So I reckon i can speak from experience on this one. 

Put it this way, I never went in to the pens at any of the races wanting the guy next to me's bike. I was always the guy with the most expensive weapon in the pack for at least a year or two. There was always respect paid when you arrived on that level of bike - at least until they dropped me on the first big climb.

I will say I rode that bike for 15 to 17 years and used to have folks admiring it as it was like a vintage Ferrari of bikes when i took it out many years after i stopped racing seriously. Very nice bike but also very rigid and an out and out racing machine. Which was good at the time,but as i got older it killed me.

Let me confess "My name is Paul and i am easily sold to" In my defence sales guys are always the easiest to sell crazy stuff to because they admire the salesman's technique and are dumbfounded when he closes the deal on them.

 

[RoadNoob6]

@Paul Ruinaard I feel you, I rode a C60 with Record and Rovals (did not buy anything new), and the joy that I felt most with that bike was it didn't feel like it was "aging out" as far as products go, it was an old bike but still made me feel like a princess when I brought it out, and it never failed to get compliments even amongst the S-Works crowd I rode with.

 

Colnago Code aside that thing was a stunner, if it could fit even 28C as opposed to 25C tyres I would still be riding it, but at some point the comfort of a 30/32C tyre just became too appealing to ignore and owning it just to leave it on the wall felt excessive.

 

I think what my intention is with this confession is that I do not oppose luxury.

Edited October 16, 2025 by RoadNoob6
Added copy.

[DieselnDust]

16 hours ago, LazyTrailRider said:

Do you store your cash in a savings account, where it earns less interest than CPI?

Bonds are where plenty of people with lots of money stash their cash. There is no such thing as money without opportunity cost, it always either earns a return, or it does not. If you're taking cash out of an investment portfolio, you're giving up the return it could have earned there. If you're taking it out of a bond, you're giving up the interest savings (on an appreciating asset in most cases) it could have earned there.

Your original statement looking down on someone drawing cash from a bond means that technically, the only people who genuinely can afford toys like bicyles used for sport are those with zero debt and annuity income from investments with zero replenishment of capital required. Basically, people who have enough money that they don't need to work and can live off interest.

Yes granted these are all viable mechanisms for funding lifestyle. Only the wealthy in SA can afford these mechanisms. In other markets high bicycles are still funded out of 1-3 months disposable income by the middle class.

innRSA we use bonds and investment accounts to fund our toys and lifestyles because the rate of return is good. Toy pricing is aware of these mechanisms and this is therefore factored in.

i wouldn’t use opportunity cost on a rapidly depreciating liability like a bicycle but yet here we are which is unfortunate as this spiral has resulted in cycling becoming a sport for high LSM groups only. The more elite it becomes the more the more the joining costs will spiral upward. Planned obsolescence is another factor. A bicycle models lifecycle used to be 4years, it’s now down to 2 years before a major change is introduced. This makes depreciation greater , further reducing the sensibility of servicing the purchase with debt. Banks may make it look good but the risk is priced in elsewhere like bank changes to the poor. A nation living off credit only serves to weaken its economy further and further

[The Ouzo]

18 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Well there are blurred lines here.

An Italian sports car is still unnecessary and only worth something because people are taught to believe that going fast and looking cool are, well, cool

Separate it into daily/urban car use and sport. In the former that car can't legally drive fast enough to be appreciated so you're either speeding and endangering the lives of other road users while making a terrible amount of noise or you're peacocking. 

In the sport aspect, motorsport is an archaic fossil fuel burning waste of resource. In a time where we have little maneuverability in terms of climate change, burning excessive amounts of fossil fuel is 100% unnecessary and should be frowned upon instead of glorified. 

But, people still love the idea that Marlboro and James dean sold them so they 'love' the growl of a V8 etc... Motorsport should be systematically shut down and boxed in the same vain as gladiator battles to the death have been. 

Something that was thoroughly enjoyed in the past but in todays climate isn't justifiable. 

I know I will be called a lot of things for this, but societies that have done their best to reduce the use of combustion single person private cars are far better for it. In many ways, but one overlooked aspect is the social and space usage side. 

I do agree that a 400k push bike is a waste of  money, but I think any 'performance' car is also a waste of money 

 

the words are english, but I dont understand them. Shut down motorsport ???? you must be translating from another language.

[IceCreamMan]

1 hour ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

 

Triple ply non negotiable. Shaving cream no question there is direct marginal utility in those. 1050 I wnat, 1030 PLus  rationalise as my eyesite is getting worse and i need the big screen. Fenix 6 was 7 years old so an 8 was a major step factor improvement. Like I said,  I am a poster child for this. Garmin Varia Tail Light for safety. Sworks may be on a frame or two with SRAM AXS on both road and mountain.

BTW I must confess to having done the equivalent of this in 2001 when Alan van Heerden still had the Colnago agency in Jhb. I just recently sold the bike actually. He managed to upsell me on to the ultimate bike at the time by using my own technique I learned later - basically telling me it was likely out of my bracket and too much bike for me. I came away with a Carbon C 40 with Campag 10 Speed Record on it and Campag Nucleons - which in the day was the equivalent of todays R 400k Colnago. There was nothing else you could have fitted.  I think it cost about R 45k to R 60k back in the day which was a pornographic amount of money for me to blow on a bicycle as my house cost R 420k 3 years before but hey the house was paid for and I was young, dumb, quite fit and wanted it and had hit a streak of good forune so had some cash.

So I reckon i can speak from experience on this one. 

Put it this way, I never went in to the pens at any of the races wanting the guy next to me's bike. I was always the guy with the most expensive weapon in the pack for at least a year or two. There was always respect paid when you arrived on that level of bike - at least until they dropped me on the first big climb.

I will say I rode that bike for 15 to 17 years and used to have folks admiring it as it was like a vintage Ferrari of bikes when i took it out many years after i stopped racing seriously. Very nice bike but also very rigid and an out and out racing machine. Which was good at the time,but as i got older it killed me.

Let me confess "My name is Paul and i am easily sold to" In my defence sales guys are always the easiest to sell crazy stuff to because they admire the salesman's technique and are dumbfounded when he closes the deal on them.

 

We love you Paul, only 11 steps left in the program. 

[dave303e]

On 10/15/2025 at 10:23 AM, splat said:

I thought that KTM's were the unit of measure in these conversations 

I have a self imposed ban on going to the ktm website. 
I am too close to buying a 250xcw and I really shouldn't be buying one and if I am not looking at the forbidden fruit then the odds of my lack of self control failing me are much lower...

[RoadNoob6]

@dave303e if you feel like breaking down somewhere inconvenient, my brother there are cheaper ways to do so. 😉

[Headshot]

20 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Well there are blurred lines here.

An Italian sports car is still unnecessary and only worth something because people are taught to believe that going fast and looking cool are, well, cool

Separate it into daily/urban car use and sport. In the former that car can't legally drive fast enough to be appreciated so you're either speeding and endangering the lives of other road users while making a terrible amount of noise or you're peacocking. 

In the sport aspect, motorsport is an archaic fossil fuel burning waste of resource. In a time where we have little maneuverability in terms of climate change, burning excessive amounts of fossil fuel is 100% unnecessary and should be frowned upon instead of glorified. 

But, people still love the idea that Marlboro and James dean sold them so they 'love' the growl of a V8 etc... Motorsport should be systematically shut down and boxed in the same vain as gladiator battles to the death have been. 

Something that was thoroughly enjoyed in the past but in todays climate isn't justifiable. 

I know I will be called a lot of things for this, but societies that have done their best to reduce the use of combustion single person private cars are far better for it. In many ways, but one overlooked aspect is the social and space usage side. 

I do agree that a 400k push bike is a waste of  money, but I think any 'performance' car is also a waste of money 

 

Ya, in todays climate of aerial bombardment and drone wars, gladiatorial combat is totally unacceptable... I'm thinking Trumpy and Vlad in loincloths in a cage would make good TV though. 

A Ferrari cannot be compared to a Colnago bike - the only thing Colnago make are the frame and the rest of the kit on it anyone can buy. The car is bespoke in ways 99.9% of bicycles are not. The car also guarantees you acceleration and cornering speed that most other vehicles can't match while the Colnago will be overtaken on the first twisty downhill by me on my R5k Raleigh 10 speed. 

[dave303e]

20 minutes ago, RoadNoob6 said:

@dave303e if you feel like breaking down somewhere inconvenient, my brother there are cheaper ways to do so. 😉

Look, the husqvarna, triumph and gasser websites are also banned. I am even doing my best to avoid fb marketplace which is even more dangerous because there are series II land rovers on there as well...