Cape Town danger areas

[DJR]

10 minutes ago, waveydavey said:

There is already a very good route through made for NMT. My city cycle lane to Woodstock. Up onto church street bridge and a cycle lane down Albert Road.

Good route just not policed or maintained. Any new route would need policing and maintaining so all they really need to do is sort the existing one out.

About the West Coast cycle lane into the City Centre, I fully agree, sort out the security, clean up and fix the fences. Trouble is that it was / is a politically unpalatable action to forcibly remove the illegal squallers and criminals from the area. Without that step, the safety problem cannot be solved.

About the cycle land along Albert Road - I consider that conceptually disfunctional because it is not separated from traffic. In my honest opinion, it makes it MORE dangerous to ride there. Having a painted lane in such close proximity to parking bays, bus stops, pedestrians and moving vehicles just gives a false sense of safety, especially in a society that disobey every rule. If you can ride that full length without getting blocked by a parked car, an Uber, doored or have to swerve out for a bus/truck/taxi/pedestrian, I will be amazed. Someting else is needed for Albert Road.

[waveydavey]

Totally agree; that was the point of maintain as well as police.

The route through Paarden Eiland should be good but is used as a loading and dumping ground for businesses in the area. Even Woodstock station has holes in the brick paving.

Albert Road is easy to sort out: it just needs kerbs to properly separate the bike lane from the traffic:. IE make it for NMT and not sensibly accessible by cars unless crossing into a property entrance.
Still much cheaper than building a new route

[CapSizer]

44 minutes ago, DJR said:

About the cycle land along Albert Road - I consider that conceptually disfunctional because it is not separated from traffic. In my honest opinion, it makes it MORE dangerous to ride there. Having a painted lane in such close proximity to parking bays, bus stops, pedestrians and moving vehicles just gives a false sense of safety, especially in a society that disobey every rule. If you can ride that full length without getting blocked by a parked car, an Uber, doored or have to swerve out for a bus/truck/taxi/pedestrian, I will be amazed. Someting else is needed for Albert Road.

Agreed, it needs a complete rethink. It was particularly noticeable that when the road was resurfaced and there were no road markings, it actually felt slightly safer than with the painted lane. The city likes to think in terms of class 1 to 4 cycle lanes, but class 3 (painted lanes) and 4 (shared but signposted roadway) routes are meaningless. The painted lanes are simply used as free parking. 

[Mamil]

I simply don't believe there is any meaningful initiative in Cape Town to cater to cyclists of any description - the design of the roads around the monstrosity that is the new riverclub development is the most immediate evidence for this assertion. The general lack of any meaningful infrastructure maintenance and security noted above really hammers home the point.  

I also believe that this creates a climate of disregard for cyclists and pedestrians in the minds of motorists who, because almost all public space is designed around the motor car, automatically and correctly assume that their needs come first

[DJR]

5 minutes ago, Mamil said:

..............I also believe that this creates a climate of disregard for cyclists and pedestrians in the minds of motorists who, because almost all public space is designed around the motor car, automatically and correctly assume that their needs come first

I totally agree, except that it feels like EVERY ******* South African nowadays believe that they should come first at everything including being a ****.

[Wannabe]

Not sure of exact location/name of street, on the cycle lane in Paarden Island, close to the one Bus Station, a business had erected their emergency generator, complete in a steel cage, smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. As I'm avoiding that area for a long while now, I do not know if this is still the case, or if it has been rectified.

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by Wannabe

[MongooseMan]

24 minutes ago, Wannabe said:

Not sure of exact location/name of street, on the cycle lane in Paarden Island, close to the one Bus Station, a business had erected their emergency generator, complete in a steel cage, smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. As I'm avoiding that area for a long while now, I do not know if this is still the case, or if it has been rectified.

 

I think it's gone, but I just ride in the red bus lane along that section.

[Mamil]

2 hours ago, DJR said:

I totally agree, except that it feels like EVERY ******* South African nowadays believe that they should come first at everything including being a ****.

It's worth bearing in mind that 3% of the USA population meets the criteria for anti-social personality - so 3 out of every 100 people in the GenPop " consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to purposely make others angry or upset and manipulate or treat others harshly or with cruel indifference. They lack remorse or do not regret their behavior."

Arguably the social conditions of our country could increase this number.

Considering that as a cyclist on a 5 hour ride around the peninsula my varia radar reports that I could encounter 1000 cars approaching from behind, the stat suggests that 30, perhaps even 40 of them behave as described.

Add to that those antisocial personalities that are actively criminal and congregating in Woodstock at the moment.

Sobering. Chilling actually

 

[CapSizer]

2 hours ago, Mamil said:

I simply don't believe there is any meaningful initiative in Cape Town to cater to cyclists of any description - the design of the roads around the monstrosity that is the new riverclub development is the most immediate evidence for this assertion. The general lack of any meaningful infrastructure maintenance and security noted above really hammers home the point.  

I also believe that this creates a climate of disregard for cyclists and pedestrians in the minds of motorists who, because almost all public space is designed around the motor car, automatically and correctly assume that their needs come first

There is a big disconnect between the excellent and  very progressive new draft policy document, and reality out on the streets.  Those tasked with implementing the city's vision seem to simply ignore it, and those with the vision don't seem to have much authority over them.

[CapSizer]

40 minutes ago, Wannabe said:

Not sure of exact location/name of street, on the cycle lane in Paarden Island, close to the one Bus Station, a business had erected their emergency generator, complete in a steel cage, smack bang in the middle of the cycle lane. As I'm avoiding that area for a long while now, I do not know if this is still the case, or if it has been rectified.

 

These days I take the M5 interchange / Maitland / Black River bridge route to the southern suburbs, but I used the Paarden Island lane for a long time.  On at least two occasions I stormed into the Pudlo warehouse (where the panel beaters used to be) to scream at the manager for obstructing the bike lane, but he was totally indifferent to my rants.  At one stage they used the lane as their private building site while putting up a concrete wall.  For about a month ... They really didn't care.

[DJR]

1 hour ago, Mamil said:

It's worth bearing in mind that 3% of the USA population meets the criteria for anti-social personality - so 3 out of every 100 people in the GenPop " consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to purposely make others angry or upset and manipulate or treat others harshly or with cruel indifference. They lack remorse or do not regret their behavior."

Arguably the social conditions of our country could increase this number.

Considering that as a cyclist on a 5 hour ride around the peninsula my varia radar reports that I could encounter 1000 cars approaching from behind, the stat suggests that 30, perhaps even 40 of them behave as described.

Add to that those antisocial personalities that are actively criminal and congregating in Woodstock at the moment.

Sobering. Chilling actually

 

Chilling indeed

[117]

2 hours ago, Mamil said:

It's worth bearing in mind that 3% of the USA population meets the criteria for anti-social personality - so 3 out of every 100 people in the GenPop " consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to purposely make others angry or upset and manipulate or treat others harshly or with cruel indifference. They lack remorse or do not regret their behavior."

Arguably the social conditions of our country could increase this number.

Considering that as a cyclist on a 5 hour ride around the peninsula my varia radar reports that I could encounter 1000 cars approaching from behind, the stat suggests that 30, perhaps even 40 of them behave as described.

Add to that those antisocial personalities that are actively criminal and congregating in Woodstock at the moment.

Sobering. Chilling actually

 

Arguably the same % as the USA... 3 or 4 out of 100 vs. 30 to 40 out of a 1000

One could also argue that on a 5 hour sortie around the peninsula, a fair amount of traffic users are not local or not used to the left hand side of the road driving, which would explain why a fair portion of them are trying to flatten you via your Varia. This could in fact reduce the % value somewhat. But ok, i digress

Whilst i might agree with you that the bridge gang could be considered anti-social, I'd lean more towards a bunch of drug users that have no regard for consequences. As an example, i went fishing off millers point the other day and told a young local to p!ss off as he was harrassing us for money and tips. I was promptly put into the car for my own protection as these locals tend to stab people if they don't get their way, all thanks to drugs

So, what's the solution? Well, police do nothing, private security or investigation costs money and politicians dont care, and dancing like we all know the moves to a toy toy does nothing either. What does that leave the cyclist? Well, to be frank, i dont think you'd like my answer of finding other options to ride the bikes to stay out of harms way. I dont condone whats happeneing, but its sometimes easier to stay away from the crocodile's mouth when feeding time happens

Or, go be heard at the local town council meetings, and if that doesn't work, then vote for someone else to govern the city

[Robbie Stewart]

Semi related. I was cycling along the beachfront in Melkbos earlier today when suddenly I found myself having to take drastic evasive action to avoid being flattened by a boet in his new Ranger. Yes, it was a white one complete with paper plates stuck to the glass. Anyway, boet was driving one handed over a Stop which he decided wasn't meant for him to stop at. All this while holding a can in his other paw. I can't say if it was a soda can or another kind of less legal beverage that may not be consumed while operating a vehicle. But boet tried to stare me down while I was counting the cost of kicking his door in its moer. I decided to just leave and get on the cycle path as soon as possible. 

Be careful out there mense, the morons are in town again.

[Mamil]

9 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

Semi related. I was cycling along the beachfront in Melkbos earlier today when suddenly I found myself having to take drastic evasive action to avoid being flattened by a boet in his new Ranger. Yes, it was a white one complete with paper plates stuck to the glass. Anyway, boet was driving one handed over a Stop which he decided wasn't meant for him to stop at. All this while holding a can in his other paw. I can't say if it was a soda can or another kind of less legal beverage that may not be consumed while operating a vehicle. But boet tried to stare me down while I was counting the cost of kicking his door in its moer. I decided to just leave and get on the cycle path as soon as possible. 

Be careful out there mense, the morons are in town again.

One of the 3 percent possibly. They are legion

[mikkelz]

Cyclists warned by Pedal Power Association of attacks in Woodstock

https://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-and-courts/cyclists-warned-by-pedal-power-association-of-attacks-in-woodstock-da16eea6-a8aa-43aa-9629-d0326940ef93

[Robbie Stewart]

3 hours ago, mikkelz said:

Cyclists warned by Pedal Power Association of attacks in Woodstock

https://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-and-courts/cyclists-warned-by-pedal-power-association-of-attacks-in-woodstock-da16eea6-a8aa-43aa-9629-d0326940ef93

I'm pretty sure I'm missing the obvious, but I'm curious how putting up signs by the danger spots to warn cyclists not to ride there will solve anything. Especially as the article suggests that out of town cyclists would not know the risks of the area so they need to be warned. In Afrikaans there's an idiom that aptly applies to this; "dit is mosterd na die maal". If a cyclist finds themself on that stretch of road with seconds to spare before they get mugged, I fail to understand what benefit a colourful sign will add to the already messed up affair? 

I'm also curious how anyone thinks to put signage up to warn cyclists off their poor life choices is better than removing the vermin that causes the problem in the first place. 

THIS is why I don't support the PPA. I just don't see the value they bring to the table. They need to do better than this.