weekly tss score

[Spinnekop]

On all things training and TSS and graphs and etc.

Go have a look at Stages' net Link s/w.  Web based and based on the Mytrainingday stuff, this is kinda awesome.

 

I'll be playing a bit with it for a couple of days to see if there is any good value long term. 

 

GC still remains my main go to program.
 

[Jurgens Smit]

That's the kind of things I'm also thinking about.

 

I would say that there are two negatives in using your hr for strength training. One is that you will overestimate your fitness, because weights increase hr, but not really your cardio fitness. Two is that you will underestimate your fatigue/overestimate your form, for the same reason as one.

 

I didn't really consider the cardio fitness aspect.

 

The big problem is that you are trying to add apples by counting oranges. TSS works for all endurance sports, because the principle is the same. But how do you add a muscular orange to an endurance apple?

 

My guess for the endurance + muscular would be to find a correlation between the 2 (ie how does pure strength affect endurance) there should be a constant factor to form a formula.

 

Thus it would look something like 0.5Strength = Cardio Fitness. 

Let me think and read a bit.

 

Any ideas?

 

Based on the above comments.

 

Say you are doing a squat workout, you will have to calculate your TSS manually (from the watt conversion I mentioned earlier) {call this strength TSS or tTSS}

 

Then multiply the constant factor (call this K)

 

So the TSS you input into TP should look like (K)(tTSS)

 

By far the hardest part of this equation would be finding the constant K

 

 

 

But, this would just be for the weekend warriors or Avg athletes.

 

Proper Coaches will factor in the effect a strength training session has into their program planning and program accordingly. 

 

 

Edit2:

https://www.nsca.com/education/articles/resistance_training_effect_on_endurance/

Edited May 30, 2017 by Jurgens Smit

[andydude]

Based on the above comments.

 

Say you are doing a squat workout, you will have to calculate your TSS manually (from the watt conversion I mentioned earlier) {call this strength TSS or tTSS}

 

Then multiply the constant factor (call this K)

 

So the TSS you input into TP should look like (K)(tTSS)

 

By far the hardest part of this equation would be finding the constant K

 

 

 

But, this would just be for the weekend warriors or Avg athletes.

 

Proper Coaches will factor in the effect a strength training session has into their program planning and program accordingly.

 

 

Edit2:

https://www.nsca.com/education/articles/resistance_training_effect_on_endurance/

I like the way you are thinking.

 

And thinking about my previous post now, you can do weights at a lower hr, thus the K is almost already taken into account.

 

Using hr would mean your strength sessions won't have that much impact on fitness. E.g. one hour reps and rest would average a low zone 1/2 hr.

 

But it will hurt you on your tsb/form which will show that your fatigue is low, but your legs will be dead.

 

So you want something showing not a lot of tss, but showing worse tsb. Because if you take a week off of cycling and do five leg sessions, your fitness would not have deteriorated much and your form would be great! But your legs would be dead.

 

Excuse me if it doesn't make sense. I am thinking out load.

Edited May 30, 2017 by andydude

[Jurgens Smit]

I like the way you are thinking.

 

And thinking about my previous post now, you can do weights at a lower hr, thus the K is almost already taken into account.

 

Using hr would mean your strength sessions won't have that much impact on fitness. E.g. one hour reps and rest would average a low zone 1/2 hr.

 

But it will hurt you on your tsb/form which will show that your fatigue is low, but your legs will be dead.

 

So you want something showing not a lot of tss, but showing worse tsb. Because if you take a week off of cycling and do five leg sessions, your fitness would not have deteriorated much and your form would be great! But your legs would be dead.

 

Excuse me if it doesn't make sense. I am thinking out load.

 

I've actually been thinking.

 

The normal TSS would not be an issue, seeing as interval training is essentially on bike training and has more or less the same stimulus as gym strength work.

 

Intervals being low torque high rpm, strength work high torque low rpm.

 

Could one thus remove the K factor from the equation seeing as one doesn't mess with the formula when uploading on bike intervals?

 

I'll play around with a few ways of this algorithm and have a chat with my coach and see what he thinks 

[andydude]

I've actually been thinking.

 

The normal TSS would not be an issue, seeing as interval training is essentially on bike training and has more or less the same stimulus as gym strength work.

 

Intervals being low torque high rpm, strength work high torque low rpm.

 

Could one thus remove the K factor from the equation seeing as one doesn't mess with the formula when uploading on bike intervals?

 

I'll play around with a few ways of this algorithm and have a chat with my coach and see what he thinks

Yeah kind of what I'm thinking as well.

 

Do you or anybody have an example of a gym session and tss and if using hr?

 

The tsb/form would be an issue though.

[Jurgens Smit]

Yeah kind of what I'm thinking as well.

 

Do you or anybody have an example of a gym session and tss and if using hr?

 

The tsb/form would be an issue though.

 

Doing some gym work tomorrow, will measure everything and post it up here 

[Jakkals.]

Hope the fatigue has set in from all this weeks training.

My knee has a bit of an ache but should be ok. will check cleats etc if all is still ok.

[andydude]

Doing some gym work tomorrow, will measure everything and post it up here

And how did it go?

[Jurgens Smit]

And how did it go?

 

Sorry bud, did the exercises, just haven't had time to calculate everything. Exams and all

 

Anyway, the thing of having an engineer in the house and myself studying applied math and physics with computing aspects, my father and I started fiddling around and made a few changes.

 

Will update a bit later.

[Jurgens Smit]

So my first algorithm had an assumption in that leads to a major flaw. Due to the way a squat/deadlift works the last few cm are easier. Thus one can't approximate the distance the weight travelled to get it to Nm.

 

The basis is to convert the mass to Newtons and then Newtons to watt.

As per physics conversion laws 1watt = 1Nm/s

Mass to Newton = mass x 9.8

 

Revised formula = 

 

distance(mass x 9.8) (Note - this is per second) 

 

So one would have to either avg the entire set or work on Tempo Squats / Deadlifts

I prefer Tempo and used 2sec up (essentially you are at Nm/2sec)

 

thus you get

 

0.5(distance(mass x 9.8)) watts

 

So for my work out, each set averaged:

 

0.5(8/10(588)) = 235.2 watts per squat (60kg)

This is a constant effort, so basically its 235.2 watts for about 40secs work

 

According to a tss calculator this equates to about 15 TSS on my current FTP. for just the squat set. Deadlifts would give me another +-10 TSS and the remainder of the workout another 10-15(skipping rope and HIIT exercises) 

Essentially I would have been at around 40-50 TSS in half an hour

 

 

 

 

 

The closer the watts you squat is to your FTP, the higher your TSS will be, but also the harder the exercises get.

 

What I have figured with this is, the best is still to use a hr monitor, and then if you are up to the calculations do the powerand manually add them when you log your workout.

 

The best application of this is if you were to exercise in your 'Maximal zone'; ie train in the power levels where you would be sprinting at. 

 

 

If I made any mistakes please point the out. I've been writing Calculus and Multi-derivable Calculus this week, so my mind has been focused elsewhere    

 

[Jakkals.]

Missed one training ride due to knee, but think I've sorted it out with a wedge...

 

TSS: 606

IF: 0.759

[andydude]

So my first algorithm had an assumption in that leads to a major flaw. Due to the way a squat/deadlift works the last few cm are easier. Thus one can't approximate the distance the weight travelled to get it to Nm.

 

The basis is to convert the mass to Newtons and then Newtons to watt.

As per physics conversion laws 1watt = 1Nm/s

Mass to Newton = mass x 9.8

 

Revised formula =

 

distance(mass x 9.8) (Note - this is per second)

 

So one would have to either avg the entire set or work on Tempo Squats / Deadlifts

I prefer Tempo and used 2sec up (essentially you are at Nm/2sec)

 

thus you get

 

0.5(distance(mass x 9.8)) watts

 

So for my work out, each set averaged:

 

0.5(8/10(588)) = 235.2 watts per squat (60kg)

This is a constant effort, so basically its 235.2 watts for about 40secs work

 

According to a tss calculator this equates to about 15 TSS on my current FTP. for just the squat set. Deadlifts would give me another +-10 TSS and the remainder of the workout another 10-15(skipping rope and HIIT exercises)

Essentially I would have been at around 40-50 TSS in half an hour

 

 

 

 

 

The closer the watts you squat is to your FTP, the higher your TSS will be, but also the harder the exercises get.

 

What I have figured with this is, the best is still to use a hr monitor, and then if you are up to the calculations do the powerand manually add them when you log your workout.

 

The best application of this is if you were to exercise in your 'Maximal zone'; ie train in the power levels where you would be sprinting at.

 

 

If I made any mistakes please point the out. I've been writing Calculus and Multi-derivable Calculus this week, so my mind has been focused elsewhere [emoji106]

Nice write up Jurgens. Thanks [emoji106]

 

Lots to think about although I'm still of the opinion that we're trying to compare apples to oranges. One is cardiovascular, one is muscular.

 

Have you found any papers looking at the benefit of doing weights to fitness, if any at all?

 

You know what, let me read your post again, and think, read, and then we can continue the discussion!

 

Thanks again [emoji108]

[Jurgens Smit]

Nice write up Jurgens. Thanks [emoji106]

 

Lots to think about although I'm still of the opinion that we're trying to compare apples to oranges. One is cardiovascular, one is muscular.

 

Have you found any papers looking at the benefit of doing weights to fitness, if any at all?

 

You know what, let me read your post again, and think, read, and then we can continue the discussion!

 

Thanks again [emoji108]

 

 

No probs, very interesting topic of discussion.

 

I have found all these links, but they mostly related to sedentary adults, or people with cardiovascular fitness.

 

https://scholar.google.co.za/scholar?q=weight+training+effect+on+cardiovascular+fitness&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiywriKpKfUAhXILsAKHWuaAuIQgQMIIDAA

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2626093 

[awesme]

... still on 0, 2 weeks now, not recovered yet, knocked my CTL=75 -> 50 atm and dropping like a lead balloon.

 

hope to be back on the bike on Sunday, then have scheduled some endurance only rides for me on the trainer for next week. Get back slowly, doing Mica 2 Provinces next weekend and then back into training mode.

 

G

[Veebee]

I don't have the brain power for all the complicated equations. A session from this morning, I set my watch to indoor cycle.

 

This was a overall workout, with 5 sets of leg press at the end. Planned session for Sunday is just legs so will track that again and see what TSS is achieved.

 

[Jakkals.]

and so goes, all of a sudden my "good" knee not so good anymore.