Chinese Carbon Thread

[Pure Savage]

I wonder if a bike shop opens up a giant tcr box and finds a colnago if they would say anything!

[DieVlieg]

I found the frame you baught on the web. What did it cost you?

[rouxtjie]

I found the frame you baught on the web. What did it cost you?

Que?

[Pusher]

Mate not yet weighed... And not sure where I'd get hold of an appropriate scale!

 

Haven't built it with weight as a major factor, as I'm quite heavy myself... But it is light, and once the carbon wheels are on, I'm sure it should be sub 8kg...

Congrats on a great build and a hot looking bike.

[Capcha]

 

 

What you seem to be implying is, that a branded frame from any other well known manufacturer, like pinarello, colnago, Scott, giant, etc etc, don't ever fail?

 

Why don't you worry about the same thing on your branded bike?

 

Perception. We get lulled into believing its safe, cause it must be, right? Like south Africans tenancy to think that doing 120 on the highway is fine, but 122? Now you're going at an "unsafe" speed.

 

Anyway, I did a lot of searching, and it seems that fake bikes fail just as often as the real thing.

 

I'm 100kgs, and the roads around Bedford are some terrible ones... And it's held up to the punishment on my rides so far.

U jumping to conclusions concerning my question and thats all it was, nothing implied. With the net being tightened on dealers selling fake pinos, manufacturers of the brand are stating how unsafe these fakes are and show alot of images of broken bikes as examples. So my question was more of a concern than anything else.

[rouxtjie]

U jumping to conclusions concerning my question and thats all it was, nothing implied. With the net being tightened on dealers selling fake pinos, manufacturers of the brand are stating how unsafe these fakes are and show alot of images of broken bikes as examples. So my question was more of a concern than anything else.

So brand names never crack / break.

[BogusOne]

if you look at this search on google I have counted 1 pic of a chinarello that the fork failed. The rest is mostly brand names

 

https://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=784&q=broken+carbon+frames&oq=broken+carbon&gs_l=img.1.1.0l10.1683.10081.0.13950.20.17.3.0.0.0.380.3594.5j1j9j2.17.0....0...1ac.1.44.img..2.18.3098.LLDuSAqaHVI

 

At the end of the day if you pull something through your gat it will not last for ever.

[Martin PJ]

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/pinarello-cracks-down-on-chinarello-counterfeiters-41072/

[Garfield2010]

Obviously the bike manufacturers would want everyone to believe that fakes are unsafe as this will protect their market share.

 

My question is what is the cycle of a Pinarello before it goes onto a shelf? In which factory in which country is it made? Then does it get shipped to Italy afterwards and then the serial number (and made in Italy sticker) gets put on before its distributed and sold world wide or how exactly does it work? Do they do a quality control check in Italy as well?

[BogusOne]

http://www.bikeradar...rfeiters-41072/

 

Not discussing fake Pinarellos here. Daai storie is al hol rug gery....ai

[Paul Ruinaard]

I know its probably been said before but this string is long, so forgive me if i repeat some observations but here is my 2 cents worth.

 

IMHO, the Chinarello issue could not have done more to draw attention to how global supply chains work and what the true value of marketing is.

 

Hence all the stink now that people are in the know the truth and they are forced to admit what they hold dear is somewhat value less, the ability to hide from the truth is less of an option, and some interesting responses are happening.

 

Change is disruptive to all of us, and some do it better than others, hence the enhanced teeth gnashing of the label puppies as their trusty brands are revealed as less than valuable.

 

The thing is this is pretty embarrassing if you have laid out all that tin on the genuine article only to find that the value you have perceived is somewhat diluted. It is bound to make you angry and emotional.

 

So decide where you are on the continuum of early adopter willing to change or label slave, and experiment or stay a label puppy. If you are truly a religious zealot of the brand, then the only way you will know whether you are genuine and the others are fake is to check whether all your mates have serial numbers on their frame at the next ride to decide whether you are better than them, and be done with it.

 

And if you cross to the dark side then be aware that you are in for a very exciting experience of actually being able to customize and assemble a build that matches exactly what you want in a bike and get it at a price that is less than some of the wheel sets people are running, albeit branded wheel sets.

 

So you now have power back in the hands of the consumers and choice back where it belongs.Use that power wisely, and you will be justly rewarded, but if you are stupid then a fool and his money are easily parted.

 

This string has huge amounts of detailed value to add for anyone willing to take the small step too say "lets try this out" and I am the proud owner of a bike i always wanted that my friends now call bicycle pornography. It is completely stealth and unbranded BTW. It is a CX build with discs, somewhat unique.

 

I would not have done it without the advice that is contained here.

 

However now that i have a Chinese bike i am a total convert and like many others cannot see myself ever buying anything from the manufacturers again unless I cannot get it from the Chinese first. So i am still riding my Specialized Roubaix frame and my Epic S works, until i see similar on the Chinese threads.

 

I do realize that the innovation on some of these frame sets is from the brands in the USA, however i think everyone is ignoring quite how innovative the Chinese carbon manufacturers are in their own right and that a lot of brands are actually Chinese designs with a coat of paint and a markup to justify marketing, even at a serious pro-tour/TdF team level this is true.

 

And that is even more what burns the label puppies.

 

WE are seeing an industry in flux and the true impact of access to information on supply chains. You can now get directly or very close to manufacturers and cut all the other layers away that add costs.

 

I think we are in for more of this in many industries but cycling has become so stupidly expensive for items that are inherently not technical in their nature. Cars are complex, planes are complex and other really big devices, which justify local value adds etc.

 

But bicycles are stupidly simple. That is their elegance.

 

So why all these ridiculous prices like R 150k for a bike?

 

You have to be crazy to spend that.

 

Rant off.

 

And thanks to all the guys who have contributed to this thread - you made me a very happy cyclist.

[rouxtjie]

An interesting article although oldish explains why campy isn't sitting in this predicament. Think its called "the italian job" or something. They created this monster....no they must live with it.

 

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/italian-job

Edited May 20, 2014 by rouxtjie

[Meezo]

I know its probably been said before but this string is long, so forgive me if i repeat some observations but here is my 2 cents worth.

 

IMHO, the Chinarello issue could not have done more to draw attention to how global supply chains work and what the true value of marketing is.

 

Hence all the stink now that people are in the know the truth and they are forced to admit what they hold dear is somewhat value less, the ability to hide from the truth is less of an option, and some interesting responses are happening.

 

Change is disruptive to all of us, and some do it better than others, hence the enhanced teeth gnashing of the label puppies as their trusty brands are revealed as less than valuable.

 

The thing is this is pretty embarrassing if you have laid out all that tin on the genuine article only to find that the value you have perceived is somewhat diluted. It is bound to make you angry and emotional.

 

So decide where you are on the continuum of early adopter willing to change or label slave, and experiment or stay a label puppy. If you are truly a religious zealot of the brand, then the only way you will know whether you are genuine and the others are fake is to check whether all your mates have serial numbers on their frame at the next ride to decide whether you are better than them, and be done with it.

 

And if you cross to the dark side then be aware that you are in for a very exciting experience of actually being able to customize and assemble a build that matches exactly what you want in a bike and get it at a price that is less than some of the wheel sets people are running, albeit branded wheel sets.

 

So you now have power back in the hands of the consumers and choice back where it belongs.Use that power wisely, and you will be justly rewarded, but if you are stupid then a fool and his money are easily parted.

 

This string has huge amounts of detailed value to add for anyone willing to take the small step too say "lets try this out" and I am the proud owner of a bike i always wanted that my friends now call bicycle pornography. It is completely stealth and unbranded BTW. It is a CX build with discs, somewhat unique.

 

I would not have done it without the advice that is contained here.

 

However now that i have a Chinese bike i am a total convert and like many others cannot see myself ever buying anything from the manufacturers again unless I cannot get it from the Chinese first. So i am still riding my Specialized Roubaix frame and my Epic S works, until i see similar on the Chinese threads.

 

I do realize that the innovation on some of these frame sets is from the brands in the USA, however i think everyone is ignoring quite how innovative the Chinese carbon manufacturers are in their own right and that a lot of brands are actually Chinese designs with a coat of paint and a markup to justify marketing, even at a serious pro-tour/TdF team level this is true.

 

And that is even more what burns the label puppies.

 

WE are seeing an industry in flux and the true impact of access to information on supply chains. You can now get directly or very close to manufacturers and cut all the other layers away that add costs.

 

I think we are in for more of this in many industries but cycling has become so stupidly expensive for items that are inherently not technical in their nature. Cars are complex, planes are complex and other really big devices, which justify local value adds etc.

 

But bicycles are stupidly simple. That is their elegance.

 

So why all these ridiculous prices like R 150k for a bike?

 

You have to be crazy to spend that.

 

Rant off.

 

And thanks to all the guys who have contributed to this thread - you made me a very happy cyclist.

 

very very nice post.!!!!

 

This string has huge amounts of detailed value to add for anyone willing to take the small step too say "lets try this out" and I am the proud owner of a bike i always wanted that my friends now call bicycle pornography. It is completely stealth and unbranded BTW. It is a CX build with discs, somewhat unique.

 

show us more of this porn you talk of

[Ryanpmb]

http://www.bikeradar...rfeiters-41072/

 

Your point?... Take the time to read through the thread. No one here is buying a chinese frame and passing it off as a fake 'brand'. You've got the wrong thread.

 

Personally I think the picture in the article you posted is a load of k@k - if that frame had broken as pictured, that rider would NOT be standing there - he'd be on the floor in the foetal position, with lots of road rash...

[Butterbean]

My choice was made for me.

 

I couldn't bring myself to spend 30-40k on a bike, and then still be unhappy with the components and have to change them.

 

For those who think it's cheap carbon/resin, materials, etc, it actually comes down to the add ons.

 

Take a bike like Scott (I wanted a foil).

 

You pay for a frame, right? Since all the other components are made by someone else, and certainly sourced cheaply with bulk discounts, you're paying for:

 

Materials

Chinese/taiwanese labour

Paint

Shipping

Quality control (you hope)

Pro team bikes

Retailer signage

Importer/agent profit margin

Retailer profit margin

Cost of carrying stock

Marketing materials/people

Cost of warrantees.

 

Now, after paying for all this, sure, it's what it costs nowadays.

 

But what do you pay for in a Chinese unbranded frame?

 

Carbon and resin.

Chinese labour.

Online shop.

Shipping.

Done.

 

It's that simple for me. You, the consumer, is paying for that pro team. You, the consumer, are paying for all those pretty signs outside your lbs. And I'm sick of that. Cause I get nothing back.

 

I think we have to make the distinction between FAKE and UNBRANDED. Fakes, I do not in any way condone, or believe should be on the market. Unbranded? I believe is the perfect solution to making your dream bike a reality.

 

After building your Chinese frame with all the components you've dreamt of, it's still an expensive bike. But nowhere near the expense that a branded porno bike would have cost!

 

I love mine. I've had it for a week, and I'm completely infatuated. I will never buy anything else after this. It's just not worth it.

 

 

 

[Bigfish]

The Pinarello in question, which was destroyed at the Amashova, was actually Dennis Van Niekerk's bike.

 

Its an original Pinarello. The riders crashed into the timing matt at the finish. The Lead motorbike with the TV camera accelerated over the timing Matt causing it to lift.