LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Chris_]

If you can get a rough estimate of your BMR - basal metabolic rate, the calcs can be fairly straightforward. Its obviously no hard and fast science but its a good guide in setting up your macros. Its the amount of calories your body burns just to exist. So once you add your training etc on top you can see how your totals stack up. Calories in vs calories used.

 

Even those fancy bathroom scales with the metal nodes to stand on can give you a rough guide. I also remember getting a reading when doing a body composition test for setting up with our indoor cycle spot up the road! 

 

That aside, 2600 sounds quite low, especially if you're training every day. Don't stress too much about your protein intake, its a very over-hyped subject. 

 

Well done on your weight loss! 

[lechatnoir]

Hey Fellow LCHF’s

 

A while ago I posted about me really training hard and following LCHF but not loosing weight, so just want to share the progress.

 

I think I found the problem. BOOZE. Even just a little bit which is strange because I can tolerate a fair bit of carbs (yes I know it’s not the same) but still I did not think it would have such a big impact. During my previous posting I has like 2 whiskeys or red wine a day. The last two months I have been in Dubai and the only thing to have changed was that I could not get any alcohol here. And the results are amazing. I have dropped 12kg’s in 70 days. Yes, I do run on a deficit calorie intake but not huge margins. I still cut out all carbs and those I get is the “accidental” one from normal meals during the day. I must admit that the fat intake is varying between 60 & 70 % so not the ideal 80% but I am not low on energy so I think its OK till I go back to SA. Then I can increase again with the normal cream and coconut oils shake in the mornings.

 

I have also replaced my evening meal with a protein shake. I find this does wonders for filling the whole in the evenings, quick and cheap (relatively speaking)

 

Now I have a question to those that monitor calories intake. As I said before, I do a fair bit of weight training in the gym and during crossfit. I have not cycled much the last couple of months (the bike is back in SA). I am now on 89kg’s down from 101kg’s. I found that on about 83kg’s I feel great on the bike and also in general. For optimal muscle building I am aiming for 103g of protein a day based on LBM. To keep the 80%F, 15%P, 5%C ration, that equates to 235g F, 100g, P, 34g C. I run a bit higher carbs as I found below 20 I don’t feel great (must be all in the mind with that small amount) bit I am still in Ketosis.

 

All this adds to 2650 Calories. What your opinion on this figure? To high, to low..? The reason I am asking is because as soon as I get home in late June I should be about 83/85kg’s and then I want to stop losing weight and rather focus more on maintenance. What Calories a day do you guys aim for? I know the old school of thought was to not worry about calories and eat when hungry but the latest research shows it does matter and I have found this to be true during my own little “what works for me” test…

 

What calories do you guys aim for?

 

Just as a side note: I was LCHF full-on for about 3 years during period 2012 to 2015. Then fell of the wagon with work and life. Now back on for about 8 months. I am more than ever convinced of how good LCHF is (for me at least). For those wanting to try it, and those that fell of and want to start again, you have my support. During my first stint everything went great and I can kick myself for not sticking to it. The last 8 months were just great but I have found ones does need some fine tweaking. I do do cheat days. I don’t restrict myself from the pleasures when going out with friend and braais (f*^%ck am I looking forward to a proper braai when I am back). I tend to jump back into ketosis in 2 or 3days. So one does not miss out on anything as all!

 

Saying 'it depends' is so random, but it really really does. Person to person is so different that unless you really experiment intensely, you'll not hit on your 'optimal'. even then, it may change over time, messing with your program.

 

My thoughts are that unless you're an elite athlete, and have qualified and knowledgeable people to work with you, it's not worth it. But again, that depends... perhaps for you it IS important - it depends i guess 

 

So continue with the testing and checking. And thanks for the heads-up on the booze - of course I knew this, but lately gin and white wine have been a feature for me, and things have been going south and rapidly. I'd best find a wagon and hop on sharpish 

 

oh, and well done and good luck for the future.

[Grogs]

Could be your fat intake is too high? If you are fat adapted excess fat intake will store.

 

If not the case, perhaps try intermittent fasting. One or two days a week - 18-24 hour fast.

 

Do share if you work out a solution.

 

Intermittent fasting has done wonders for me in terms of weight loss - I do a 18:6 fast about 4-5 days a week (i.e. don't consume anything besides stevia-sweetened black coffee for an 18 hour period, then eat - usually only 2 meals - in a 6 hour window). If I'm exercising for more than an hour on any day, I don't do the fast on that day and do my normal three meals.

 

This has helped me lose an extra 6 kg in the past 2 months (on top of the 12kg I lost between July last year and March this year from going strict LCHF). Started on 90kg, now at 72kg (1.75m tall). And strongest I've ever been on my bike (at 45 years old) over 100 - 150km.

 

When fasting (always during the week) and when I exercise (no more than 1 hour on a fasting day), I do my session (HIIT - on my smart trainer) at the end of the 18 hour window, and then eat immediately after exercising. When I first tried this, I thought I'd suffer through the one hour, but I found that I was surprisingly strong.

 

I think once you know you're fully fat adapted, its pretty easy to do the intermittent fasting (I'm never hungry during the 18 hour periods), and it does wonders for autophagy (getting rid of all the rubbish in your system).

 

I do find that when I have a fasting day and an exercise session, I need at least 8 hours of sleep that night (my usual need is for 7 hours of sleep).

 

Google Peter Attia - there are plenty of podcasts/Youtube interviews with him on the benefits of intermittent fasting, especially in endurance sports.

[Grogs]

Oh - and after battling depression on and off for over 15 years, I'm no longer depressed (and off all anti-depressants since September last year).

[Lotus]

It's very motivating to read these posts. I've also been battling to get back on LCHF since January, but all I've lost to date is 5 months. I started at 89 kgs, and I'm still at 87.

 

I previously had some real success, dropping from 96 to 81kgs. I discovered that while weight loss and size reduction were the original goals, the overall feeling of wellness and mental clarity was the unexpected big win.

 

Grondpad's post gives me reason for hope. I think I've also underestimated the effect of alcohol.

 

Grogs - your post holds some good insights too.

 

The one thing I did notice is that my temperatures (basal and daily averages) are VERY low. In fact my average daily temps are lower that a normal basal temp. It seems this may be the result of hypothyroidism (I fell off that meds wagon, but have now resumed) and battered adrenals (taking supplements now).
The temps are probably an indicator of a low metabolic rate, which may explain why I'm not shifting this weight. The thyroid meds will need a couple of weeks to kick in, and in the meantime I'm doing running on the Couch to 5K program (finishing week 8 now).

I suspect I might get things (metabolism?) moving with some HIIT.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of "weight block" and found answers?

[Markellis]

Can fully agree with the intermittent  fasting. 

 

Only been doing it for about 3 months and don't do it every day.  I aim for 18:6 during the week and then eat normally on the weekends which is my long ride days.  Friday meal I up my cals a but too.

 

Some days everything goes out the window though...beers, burgers and everything else my eyes see

 

I cut back on dairy and nuts.  They seemed to be my stumbling point. 

 

after about 2 weeks I started dropping again.

[Grondpad]

If you can get a rough estimate of your BMR - basal metabolic rate, the calcs can be fairly straightforward. Its obviously no hard and fast science but its a good guide in setting up your macros. Its the amount of calories your body burns just to exist. So once you add your training etc on top you can see how your totals stack up. Calories in vs calories used.

 

Even those fancy bathroom scales with the metal nodes to stand on can give you a rough guide. I also remember getting a reading when doing a body composition test for setting up with our indoor cycle spot up the road! 

 

That aside, 2600 sounds quite low, especially if you're training every day. Don't stress too much about your protein intake, its a very over-hyped subject. 

 

Well done on your weight loss! 

I did some googling and I tend to agree with you. My BMR should be about 2400 so if I use avg 500 per day in training then I will run in deficit on 2650. I will test his when I am back with my bike and give you some feedback of the weight issue.

 

But I think from the 85kg point the weight will become less relevant as the LBM will increase and fat% decrease. Time to drop the scale and get the measuring tape I suppose....

[Chris_]

.....Time to drop the scale and get the measuring tape I suppose....

 

Drop both and use the mirror. Weight comes in different forms, shape and size comes in different forms, I still reckon the mirror is the best guide. 

 

(Obviously with you guys on the super fat diet I'd exercise additional caution as to whats happening internally and out of eyesight, blood tests etc are probably the best gauge.)

[Chris_]

Is there a difference between the carnivore diet and LCHF? Or is it just the most extreme end of the low carb scale?

Has anyone here tried that? I've seen interesting reviews on it.

[Tuxstir]

Is there a difference between the carnivore diet and LCHF? Or is it just the most extreme end of the low carb scale?

 

Has anyone here tried that? I've seen interesting reviews on it.

 

Yup

Carnivore.. is exactly that.. you eat only or very near only animal products.. and to get the right nutrients you need to eat everything, brain organs meat and fat..

 

LHCF or Banting is meat and veg, nuts and some fruits, you are limiting the carbs you eat and adding more fat to your diet.

[Odinson]

Carnivore diet: a dummies’ guide to heart disease and asshole cancer.

[Tuxstir]

Carnivore diet: a dummies’ guide to heart disease and asshole cancer.

I don't Know..  Seems the vegans on this thread are the asshole cancer....

[Odinson]

I don't Know.. Seems the vegans on this thread are the asshole cancer....

I’m a big bad carnivore, but I gotta **** in a bag stapled to my gut. It’s the carbs that did it I tell ya!

[DaleE]

Is there a difference between the carnivore diet and LCHF? Or is it just the most extreme end of the low carb scale?

Has anyone here tried that? I've seen interesting reviews on it.

 

If you want info, Amber o'Hearn seems to have an intelligent considered view on the topic. 

http://www.empiri.ca and there are some clips on youtube of talks she has done.

There are also a bunch of podcasts, but too many of them are the radical 'end of the world' type opinion for me.

2ketoDudes featured Carnivore in one of their early episodes iirc.

 

I tried it for about a month; had small beneficial changes in bloods results (lower US-CRP, Trigs, APO's) but my feeling is one month is too short for a proper trial. It's an easy way to eat but I did miss the taste of salads - just the 'crunchiness' or 'mouth feel' of lettuce or cucumber.

 

There was no noticeable change in how I felt or cycling performance. Lost around 3kgs that month but was also doing LOTS of Maffetone style training at the time so cannot claim correlation. 

 

As you will realize from other comments posted here you are likely to get shocked looks or pushback from folk who intrinsically believe that meat is bad for you based on reports in the popular press. I tried to find any studies that showed a pure carnivore diet is bad for you and could not. What you will find is lots of studies where either:

1. the 'meat' is predominantly processed polony, sausages, tinned meat, etc, which I believe is bad for you anyway and I don't eat that stuff, and/or

2. the meat is mixed with a diet of 20-30% carbs. We know that the body's reaction to fat and meat is completely different in the presence of carbs so cannot be compared to a pure carnivore or even LCHF diet.

 

As always, do some homework and make up your own mind.  

[deanbean]

I’m a big bad carnivore, but I gotta **** in a bag stapled to my gut. It’s the carbs that did it I tell ya!

If you have nothing constructive to say piss off...

[Uni]

I've been ovolacto for over 15 years. 

this year I started on the Keto journey and i started to reintroduce animal protein into my diet. 

For what I wish to achieve right now, it works for me as it was impossible for me to get the protein intake without all the carbs just by eating eggs. 

Might be an arse about way as the world seems to be moving towards plant based, I will still try be more plant based than not but i'm not restricting myself right now.