RocknRolla Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 I have posted this before, but i have mixed feelings of elation - for the pain to stop when being lapped, and disapointment that i am so *** sleg that i have been lapped.
Tumbleweed Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 id be interested to know what the entries would be like if xco because more popular in terms of numbers of events. I'm english and we don't have any marathon races at all bar the nationals. just 1 single marathon race because of byway laws meaning you cant race on public rights of way. yes there are organised 'marathons' but they aren't races.I've only raced xco and cyclocross the last 3 years and I've got to say i don't miss it one bit! its so much harder and you can travel for hours and hours just to race for 1.5 hours. marathon racing is much better value in that sense but i for one appreciate getting sections of single track in a marathon rather than it all being jeep track which i find quite dull.I've been to mankele and was pretty shocked at how technical it was compared to england. for eg.. there was a round of the british national xc series on the olympic course. it was so much more technical than anything people were used to riding that 7 people broke their collar bones and countless more dnf'd due to crashes. it would be great to have more technical xco in england but it would be even better to have marathons.. I read recently that after a trial race at Hadleigh Farm prior to the Olympics, many riders complained that it wasn't technical enough, and the organisers brought in more rocks and made it harder.
Flowta Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 id be interested to know what the entries would be like if xco because more popular in terms of numbers of events. I'm english and we don't have any marathon races at all bar the nationals. just 1 single marathon race because of byway laws meaning you cant race on public rights of way. yes there are organised 'marathons' but they aren't races.I've only raced xco and cyclocross the last 3 years and I've got to say i don't miss it one bit! its so much harder and you can travel for hours and hours just to race for 1.5 hours. marathon racing is much better value in that sense but i for one appreciate getting sections of single track in a marathon rather than it all being jeep track which i find quite dull.I've been to mankele and was pretty shocked at how technical it was compared to england. for eg.. there was a round of the british national xc series on the olympic course. it was so much more technical than anything people were used to riding that 7 people broke their collar bones and countless more dnf'd due to crashes. it would be great to have more technical xco in england but it would be even better to have marathons.. Doesn't Wales have GREAT riding?
kosmonooit Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) But it's not just XCO that we 'suck at' is it? Look at the results of Attakwas: Only one Saffa in the top 5 (well done Erik!). And the next 3 saffa's are about 20 minutes off the pace. But those athletes like 2nd place finisher Suzzie were up there in the XCO circuit in their younger days, so that is the key really, to develop the youngsters to that discipline. Then they will carry their great performances to XCM later. I think most here just have been racing XCM because that is where the sponsors wanted them to race, that is what is getting airtime. Look at Max Knox who has conquered all there is to he had in Marathon here, and now decided to turn to international XCO, best of luck to him. Edited January 21, 2014 by kosmonooit
LazyTrailRider Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Exactly ... this is where the word-of-mouth issues come in which reduces its popularity ... Joe - "Hey Phil how was your ride this weekend? How far was it? What was your avg BPM? Strava COMS? .. etc" Phil - "Hey Joe. I spent R150 and raced 20km at the Giba Provincial .. man i died .. it was tough ... great track though.. but those guys are fast ... i got lapped on lap 3 but still ended up 5th in my category ..." Joe - "you got lapped?? (in joes mind he's thinking - man Phils a hacker if he got lapped), but wow R150 bucks to do 20km ... you could have gone to Karkloof and done 80km for R30?" Phil - "Yeah i know i felt out of my depth, but was fun to race - but man it was hard - but then again you just go round and round in a circle ..." Joe - "Ja that sucks ... Lets just go and do the Eston this weekend that will be cool - 60km in the cane roads - we can see what our max wattage is." Joe then sees Bill - "Hey Bill - did you hear ... Phil did that XCO this weekend and got drilled (no mention of the 5th place) ... he said it was flippin hard and that it sucked. Also he had to pay R150 to do 20km ... WTF .. so we are going to do Eston rather as there you get to ride for every and you can just cane it in the cane roads ..." .......... And thats how the bad reputation starts! Haha, *spot on*!
LazyTrailRider Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 CSA's site has so little info, including the 'more info PDF'. How many laps, elevation, start times etc.. these things are surely of interest? Should I have to google it? Anyone want to take a guess why XCO is just bumbling along? This is Africa Champs, right? In 25 years of MTBing, I've not seen even one local XCO (or even DH actually, without trying to stir) event promoted as well as the average weekend's PPA marathon/funride. It's without fail a case of "oh wait, there's a race on next weekend?!" Figures. niterider, nigelhicks and Johny Bravo 3
Cellar Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Exactly ... this is where the word-of-mouth issues come in which reduces its popularity ... Joe - "Hey Phil how was your ride this weekend? How far was it? What was your avg BPM? Strava COMS? .. etc" Phil - "Hey Joe. I spent R150 and raced 20km at the Giba Provincial .. man i died .. it was tough ... great track though.. but those guys are fast ... i got lapped on lap 3 but still ended up 5th in my category ..." Joe - "you got lapped?? (in joes mind he's thinking - man Phils a hacker if he got lapped), but wow R150 bucks to do 20km ... you could have gone to Karkloof and done 80km for R30?" Phil - "Yeah i know i felt out of my depth, but was fun to race - but man it was hard - but then again you just go round and round in a circle ..." Joe - "Ja that sucks ... Lets just go and do the Eston this weekend that will be cool - 60km in the cane roads - we can see what our max wattage is." Joe then sees Bill - "Hey Bill - did you hear ... Phil did that XCO this weekend and got drilled (no mention of the 5th place) ... he said it was flippin hard and that it sucked. Also he had to pay R150 to do 20km ... WTF .. so we are going to do Eston rather as there you get to ride for every and you can just cane it in the cane roads ..." .......... And thats how the bad reputation starts! Similar as on the road. Years ago, there were several Kermesse you could ride every weekend. And after each race/funride (ok, mainly for the elites/U23, but a good exhibition). I know I've left bits of hacked up lung up and down the country racing them. Now? Maybe that Northcliff Cycles one during the week? Edited January 21, 2014 by Cellar
nigelhicks Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Similar as on the road. Years ago, there were several Kermesse you could ride every weekend. And after each race/funride (ok, mainly for the elites/U23, but a good exhibition). I know I've left bits of hacked up lung up and down the country racing them. Now? Maybe that Northcliff Cycles one during the week? Sho I had forgotten about the Kermesse events - those were awesome - also left large amounts of my lungs on the cobbles at gateway with those races ... But there again - its okes not wanting to have their egos tarnished by getting absolutely thumped by the pros .... Cellar and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2
Shepherd Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Exactly ... this is where the word-of-mouth issues come in which reduces its popularity ... Joe - "Hey Phil how was your ride this weekend? How far was it? What was your avg BPM? Strava COMS? .. etc" Phil - "Hey Joe. I spent R150 and raced 20km at the Giba Provincial .. man i died .. it was tough ... great track though.. but those guys are fast ... i got lapped on lap 3 but still ended up 5th in my category ..." Joe - "you got lapped?? (in joes mind he's thinking - man Phils a hacker if he got lapped), but wow R150 bucks to do 20km ... you could have gone to Karkloof and done 80km for R30?" Phil - "Yeah i know i felt out of my depth, but was fun to race - but man it was hard - but then again you just go round and round in a circle ..." Joe - "Ja that sucks ... Lets just go and do the Eston this weekend that will be cool - 60km in the cane roads - we can see what our max wattage is." Joe then sees Bill - "Hey Bill - did you hear ... Phil did that XCO this weekend and got drilled (no mention of the 5th place) ... he said it was flippin hard and that it sucked. Also he had to pay R150 to do 20km ... WTF .. so we are going to do Eston rather as there you get to ride for every and you can just cane it in the cane roads ..." .......... And thats how the bad reputation starts! Haha, *spot on*! This is spot on and how the word gets around... However someone said earlier regarding education, perhaps very key here. Joe and Phil and Bill is like comparing an open wheel race car driver to an F1 racer... Put an open wheel out there in an F1 race and they would get lapped all day long and probably hate it.... I missed the first KZN XCO due to being sick all of December and not being able to train but fully plan on attending the remaining races, probably far off the pace to win however I am keen on this format of racing and want to build that experience... I have done plenty of weekend races, generally done very well in standings.. however I fully anticipate I am going to get my ass handed to me on the first XCO race. If you going to do a XCO race you need to be in it to win it as that is the race format, fast pace sprinting type of racing with loads of technical in it... Most people didnt get into mtb for this type of racing and I suspect it will be a great format for school racing though. I do wish more would do the XCO racing RockCoach and Griffin 2
nigelhicks Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Programme for this weekend from Chris Nixon http://www.wccycling.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/Program.pdf
DJR Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 So, can I sum it up by saying that XCM is good base training for XCO? All you need to add is some intervals till you puke. nigelhicks and Tumbleweed 2
Shepherd Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 So, can I sum it up by saying that XCM is good base training for XCO? All you need to add is some intervals till you puke. hahaha you know you are training hard if you want to puke... never a bad thing hahahahaha
Super_mil Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 This is spot on and how the word gets around... However someone said earlier regarding education, perhaps very key here. Joe and Phil and Bill is like comparing an open wheel race car driver to an F1 racer... Put an open wheel out there in an F1 race and they would get lapped all day long and probably hate it.... I missed the first KZN XCO due to being sick all of December and not being able to train but fully plan on attending the remaining races, probably far off the pace to win however I am keen on this format of racing and want to build that experience... I have done plenty of weekend races, generally done very well in standings.. however I fully anticipate I am going to get my ass handed to me on the first XCO race. If you going to do a XCO race you need to be in it to win it as that is the race format, fast pace sprinting type of racing with loads of technical in it... Most people didnt get into mtb for this type of racing and I suspect it will be a great format for school racing though. I do wish more would do the XCO racing It's also very worth while entering the Enduro too (only costs R50 extra) and you'll get to play on your bike for a bit longer Griffin 1
Flowta Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Sho I had forgotten about the Kermesse events - those were awesome - also left large amounts of my lungs on the cobbles at gateway with those races ... But there again - its okes not wanting to have their egos tarnished by getting absolutely thumped by the pros .... Same reason guys get hurt on the bull runs (A-line) rather than taking the B-line nigelhicks 1
Danger Dassie Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 As far as our riders "sucking" they're far off it, no they aren't contending the podiums but slowly the field is gaining more depth and the standard is rising. Overseas riders by no means have it easy when they come here to race.But SA has had it's share of relatively good performances against some of the best in the world. We need to consistently keep up with this and develop more development of riders. Not wait until we see a Junior who might do well at senior level. That kind of thing needs to be nurtured, but that seems to be a work ethic that's difficult for the average sporting fan to understand. It seems here though, we have a sink or swim attitude towards our athletes and if they don't podium. Then they're condemned and called sucky, but a Saffa finishing 20th ahead of a Euro or US rider with vastly more international experience is doing damned well.We're up there, but we're not quite cracking the core group of nations that are consistently at the very top, they do so because they have the right structures in place.We need those riders to set a consistent foundation, so that the up and coming riders can have at least a half decent race field as a springboard. Look at teams like ASG, Kargo etc .... They're doing a lot for the sport, but it needs the formal structure and support as well. Rata Del Spruit, Ramrod and RockCoach 3
Seepglad Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 A large number of riders have successfully dumbed themselves and the sport down to dirt roads thinking it's mountain biking. It isn't. That's how MTB started, dirt roads, no tracks.
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