Daryl Impey cleared!

[Andrew Steer]

Yes, very interesting. I think one should not accept anything simply on face value and as dished up by the media. Question everything: Not just the athlete, but also the testers. Mistakes are made wherever humans are involved.

I'd love to see the pharmacist under cross examination from Gerrie Nel

[jcza]

The forum is not like a newspaper which people only read and then move on, it’s a medium where people can take part in discussions etc... often this involves different opinions and debate. The forum rules state this should be done without insulting other forum members. Generally an attitude of "treat others like you would them you" serves as a good guide line for participating in forum discussions.

 

I'm the last person who can afford to nit-pick about grammar and spelling but as you mentioned "Intellect"..... did you not mean accepted and accept instead of Excepted and except in your second paragraph?

 

Your whole post smacks of trolling, you brought nothing constructive to the discussion and proceeded to do the very thing (seek attention, insult) you claim "most hubbers" are doing.

 

My intellectual (albeit it somewhat sceptical) question for you today regarding the topic is:

 

With all the various lactic acid buffers available on the market these days, why did DI need to go to all the trouble to manufacture his own?

It is lactate and not lactic acid. Debate is still raging whether the buffers actually work or not.

[DJR]

I'd love to see the pharmacist under cross examination from Gerrie Nel

 

Imagine that

['Dale]

In light of so many generations of doping, I'm thinking about the extent that cycling enthusiasts are doubtful and cautious about the reputation of the PROs we follow, admire and support:

 

Cynical (draws the conclusion anyway that people are 'bad'; no benefit of doubt)

 

OR

 

Sceptical (asks healthy questions and investigates with clear reason; benefit of doubt)

 

 

***

 

Mostly, I enjoy the scrutiny of the scenario with Impey.

I understand the questioning.

 

If SAIDS stands with the evidence presented by Impey, it is an opportunity to back the PRO and resume loyalty and support.

It is a challenge as we fans are naturally suspicious.

 

 

 

 

 

[straatvark]

The forum is not like a newspaper which people only read and then move on, it’s a medium where people can take part in discussions etc... often this involves different opinions and debate. The forum rules state this should be done without insulting other forum members. Generally an attitude of "treat others like you would them you" serves as a good guide line for participating in forum discussions.

 

I'm the last person who can afford to nit-pick about grammar and spelling but as you mentioned "Intellect"..... did you not mean accepted and accept instead of Excepted and except in your second paragraph?

 

Your whole post smacks of trolling, you brought nothing constructive to the discussion and proceeded to do the very thing (seek attention, insult) you claim "most hubbers" are doing.

 

My intellectual (albeit it somewhat sceptical) question for you today regarding the topic is:

 

With all the various lactic acid buffers available on the market these days, why did DI need to go to all the trouble to manufacture his own?

That is the only thing that I'm scratching my head about. (I'm glad that DI is able to ride and although the reasons supplied is unlikely, it is still possible. I accept that. )

 

My feeling is more a 'sigh, what was he thinking' :trying to capsule his own chemicals. Surely that is risky, even more if I look at the missus's bottle of bicarbonate of soda, its source information & packaging quality. I would not trust it if my income depend on it.

 

Hence my question if it is standard practise, do OGE doctors have a quality source and recommend it to its riders? If they do, surely the team doctor should handle this sort of task to ensure quality?

Edited September 3, 2014 by straatvark

[Wyatt Earp]

Something to add to the debate, or not?

http://www.dailymave...ltimate-victim/

 

Interesting article, but I have some questions, and please to all the pithcforkers, these questions are not aimed at anyone, but rather process and contradictions I see.

 

This is what they say, and they use the word "could" which gives me an indication that they nor the testing facilities are certain that it actually can.

 

where it could potentially mask the presence of other performance enhancing substances such as anabolic steroids or erythropoietin.

 

​Now it makes those claims based on the fact that it can "reduce the renal excretion of some drugs" and the article stipulates that it's masking properties are "assumed"

 

So now it could "possibly" mask drugs on urine based tests.

​Now where are the blood samples they took from Impey ?

 

According to the article and as we have said here, is that Probenecid increases the blood concentration of other drugs, including steroidal anti-inflammatories.

Now the big question that begs, where are the blood samples, surely the "due" process will have to look at all avenues to be able to build a strong case.

Saying his pieie had a masking agent and then not looking for what he may be masking by looking at his bloods, will only end up in "what could have and what should have"

 

The article says this, and by doing so is insinuating that DI must have specifically gone on the prowl for Probenecid.

 

Probenecid is a rarely used drug nowadays; in fact few pharmacies even stock it .

 

​We live in Africa, where it's pretty common to be backwards, so I reckon it won't be out of the ordinary to find Probenecid at pharmacies around this wonderful 1st. world market leader of a country.

 

Now if we look at the author's list of "Highly unusual number of reasons" I have no other choice but to call them out as pure speculation .

Here is one of them, it's more of a question than a solid reason.

 

What are the chances of Impey being the person who attends the pharmacy after the patient who was dispensed the rarely-used probenecid, in a rare uncoated form ?

 

 

​But Mr. Manjra, what if he was the person that attended the pharmacy and what if said pharmacy still uses Probenecid ?

 

He then leads to this.

 

Furthermore it seems that the South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport (SAIDS) had his ‘A’ sample retested

 

​Mr. Manjra, I am guessing that you have total faith and belief that SAIDS do their job fantastically well and are up to world standards and actually excel to the extent where they know exactly what they are doing.

Some stories of late proved otherwise.

 

Then this seems rather contradictory .

 

This raises another question: probenecid as a masking agent does not completely block the presence of the active drug in the urine specimen. With currently available sophisticated tests it is highly unlikely that residues of the active drug cannot be identified in urine concomitantly with the masking agent - thereby proving the case of doping rather than simply relying on evidence of the presence of the masking agent. SAIDS could have directed the retesting of the ‘A’ sample on attempting to detect a performance enhancing substance rather than a simple confirmation of the presence of probenecid.

 

 

Very confusing paragraph, so Proben is a $hit masking agent.

As you say Mr. Manjra it's highly unlikely that no other traces could not be there.

So they found Proben and nothing else, but you Mr. Manjra feel that there should have been something else, are you suggesting (I can't believe I am gonna type this) a cover up ?

Because from that paragraph onwards, you spiral in to a pit of suggestive writing with so much emotion that would set Tinkerbell free from Shrek and straight back in to the arms of Peter Pan but not before a little bit of girl on girl action with little Red Riding Hood after they slayed the wolf.

 

This sentence I particularly like.

 

Of course the athlete could have potentially walked free anyway if the process were seriously flawed.

 

The first question we have to ask.

If Probenecid is so $h!t and old and actually with so many flaws for athletes, why is it still on the banned substance list ?

​DI rides for a pro team and should have some seriously good contacts, now any the hell would he go on the hunt for a prehistoric drug that is actually pretty much less worth than Smarties when we have a whole world of great technology and better products around ?

​Secondly, did they check his blood samples to strengthen their case ?

Was anything else found in his system ?

How credible is the author of said article ?

Is that banned substance list due for an update, or does it have as many inclusions as possible to cover as broad a spectrum as possible ?

[Wyatt Earp]

It is lactate and not lactic acid. Debate is still raging whether the buffers actually work or not.

 

As far as I understand, is that every athlete has a lactate threshold and that will determine how quick or slow his body will respond to lactic acid build up.

[jcza]

As far as I understand, is that every athlete has a lactate threshold and that will determine how quick or slow his body will respond to lactic acid build up.

Spot on............... and as effort increases the build up increases up to the point where the athlete will have to stop and recover. It is incorrectly referred to as lactic acid instead of lactate.

[Wyatt Earp]

Spot on............... and as effort increases the build up increases up to the point where the athlete will have to stop and recover. It is incorrectly referred to as lactic acid instead of lactate.

 

Yip, I spent a week in a lab at Wits where I slept in the lab attached to all sorts of funny things at night, get woken up and I get pit on the bike on rollers for an hour without eating, then they prick the finger to test the threshold, two hours later I do two hours after breakfast and they test on the half hour during that session, the day carries on like that till 5 pm. it is very interesting stuff that.

[Benjamin]

All this conjecture regarding the findings , and the possible scenarios leading to the adverse analytical finding are fascinating, but ultimately irrelevant . SAIDS has cleared the decks in this matter. End of. No amount of debate or opinion is going to change that. I'll be cheering for Daryl in his next race.

[SwissVan]

I believe this readily available in SA.

It is lactate and not lactic acid. Debate is still raging whether the buffers actually work or not.

 

Lactic is a term that is used by many and clearly DI believes it works, i do believe he used the term lactic acid buffer in his defence.....anyway just semantics

 

[rouxtjie]

All this conjecture regarding the findings , and the possible scenarios leading to the adverse analytical finding are fascinating, but ultimately irrelevant . SAIDS has cleared the decks in this matter. End of. No amount of debate or opinion is going to change that. I'll be cheering for Daryl in his next race.

I think we all understand this...SAIDS said he isn't guilty then so be it. Doesnt mean we cannot debate and discuss what happened.

Edited September 3, 2014 by rouxtjie

[kosmonooit]

Maybe be was rolling his own buffer capsules to try and avoid contamination from commercial products?

['Dale]

All this conjecture regarding the findings , and the possible scenarios leading to the adverse analytical finding are fascinating, but ultimately irrelevant . SAIDS has cleared the decks in this matter. End of. No amount of debate or opinion is going to change that. I'll be cheering for Daryl in his next race.

 

I am wiling to change my mind as soon as the UCI clears him.

I'm half-way there with the SAIDS Reasoned Decision.

 

[Hopefully I'm a sceptic, not a cynic :-)]

 

Still waiting...

 

 

[rouxtjie]

I believe this readily available in SA.

 

 

Lactic is a term that is used by many and clearly DI believes it works, i do believe he used the term lactic acid buffer in his defence.....anyway just semantics

 

Now you raised the point earlier, why bother making your own capsules when you can get off the shelve and also risk the contamination thing. Surely money isnt a factor...heck 69 bucks for a packet isnt breaking the bank

 

http://www.supplementworld.co.za/usn-cramp-block.html

 

Another one I have seen in the shops

 

http://www.hammernutrition.com/products/race-day-boost.rdb.html

 

Does that mean that the supplements are that crap that a pro would rather make his own risking whatever goes with it.

[SwissVan]

Maybe be was rolling his own buffer capsules to try and avoid contamination from commercial products?

 

Could well be...backfire of massive ironic proportion if it was