The "I hate Specialized" Bandwagon...... what's the deal?

[nickc]

Sometimes during a race I will pass a guy on a Spez and will spit on him and make fun of his

" Brain ".

 

Othertimes a guy on a Spez will pass me and make fun of my funny looking fork and ask if I got the E - Mail from Cannondale that they had found the other half of my fork.

 

Its all in a days racing

[Wyatt Earp]

 a horst link behaves more like a single pivot under braking, 

This is a load of horse manure.

 

A Horst link is much more active than some designs out there, especially a VPP and DW link system.

The Horst link is fully independent and fully interactive working around 4 pivot points almost like a collapsible square.

 

It is not the most efficient pedalling platform out there, nor is it the best, one thing it does better than most other systems, it responds the best under hard braking forces.

Trek even tried to sell the anti-brake-jacking idea in their design.

 

To better it's pedalling efficiency , the brain lends a helping hand, the plus side with this is that you get to use all the travel all the time when needed whereas some pedal efficient designs will only extend to their full travel on really big hits, and for the rest of the time they stiffen up the rear to make the bike more efficient and suffer less pedal bob.

Yeti and Cannondale both do a great job in this area.

 

A single pivot design or finely referred to as a pogo stick suspension system is exactly that, it's a pogo stick.

Enough pedal bob on offer to satisfy the bounciest of boobs and flabby saddle cushions for a great massage.

This can feel a bit better if you pump the shock really hard and slow down the rebound by some.

This of course is great for downhill and other big hit rides where piggy back shocks are used to get the max travel from the bike when needed .

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

That's why the Brain is so important on bikes where you want as much pedalling efficiency as possible. Horst is very active, too active without some sort of platform on the shock to reduce bob. That's all the brain is - a very complex compression platform. As soon as a hit over a certain velocity goes through the shock, a valve opens and allows the shock to move. Under a certain velocity, and it's locked out. 

 

Pro-pedal with a different name, if you will. 

[Wyatt Earp]

That's why the Brain is so important on bikes where you want as much pedalling efficiency as possible. Horst is very active, too active without some sort of platform on the shock to reduce bob. That's all the brain is - a very complex compression platform. As soon as a hit over a certain velocity goes through the shock, a valve opens and allows the shock to move. Under a certain velocity, and it's locked out. 

 

Pro-pedal with a different name, if you will. 

The brain came before the pro-pedal shocks .

[GoLefty!!]

BRAIN and ProPedal are very different things.

BRAIN is an inertia valve with a Propedal like system underneath it whereas Propedal is a variable compression stack with a very high initial "threshold".

 

$bar linkages are the most active and they will bob the most. They can also be designed to have the least drivetrain coupling but they will still bob due to the riders leg mass oscillating.

 

But a VPP can be designed to have less brake jack but then it has to be designed to have less drivetrain coupling. Currently only DH VPP bikes are designed this way. XC bikes are all designed to use drivetrain coupling to improve traction to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Single pivots and this includes swingarm, and faux bar links are designed to the same trade off. The advantage it offers is a laterally stiffer frame and better bearing durability since the main pivots are generally larger as the designs are not as weight constrained. Four bar links and VPP drivetrain forces going through all bearings as well as frame deflection to contend with. A single pivot is really good in this area.

 

Its all compromises that need to come together to deliver performance in traction, lack of weight while offering a stiff frame for the rider to hammer

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

BRAIN and ProPedal are very different things.

BRAIN is an inertia valve with a Propedal like system underneath it whereas Propedal is a variable compression stack with a very high initial "threshold".

 

$bar linkages are the most active and they will bob the most. They can also be designed to have the least drivetrain coupling but they will still bob due to the riders leg mass oscillating.

 

But a VPP can be designed to have less brake jack but then it has to be designed to have less drivetrain coupling. Currently only DH VPP bikes are designed this way. XC bikes are all designed to use drivetrain coupling to improve traction to a greater or lesser extent.

 

Single pivots and this includes swingarm, and faux bar links are designed to the same trade off. The advantage it offers is a laterally stiffer frame and better bearing durability since the main pivots are generally larger as the designs are not as weight constrained. Four bar links and VPP drivetrain forces going through all bearings as well as frame deflection to contend with. A single pivot is really good in this area.

 

Its all compromises that need to come together to deliver performance in traction, lack of weight while offering a stiff frame for the rider to hammer

Indeed. I didn't want to get into the inertia valve vs compression stack thing though. 2 very different things. 

[Headshot]

"The Horst link is fully independent and fully interactive working around 4 pivot points almost like a collapsible square."

 

That is a very bold statement - are you also an engineer? What does "fully interactive" mean?  Don't you mean "collapsible rectangle"? 

[Wyatt Earp]

"The Horst link is fully independent and fully interactive working around 4 pivot points almost like a collapsible square."

 

That is a very bold statement - are you also an engineer? What does "fully interactive" mean?  Don't you mean "collapsible rectangle"? 

Actually in my previous life, yes.

Is that all you have ?

No, I meant and if you read it "almost like a collapsible square"

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Actually in my previous life, yes.

Is that all you have ?

No, I meant and if you read it "almost like a collapsible square"

If we want to get really technical and nit-picky, it's actually more of a collapsible rhombus. 

[mazambaan]

Never knew old Horst (Leitner) would get to the Hub. Us ballies remember the ATK dirt bike early 4 stroke, Rotax motor and with its swing arm and front drive sprocket concentric to reduce power affecting the suspension and a back brake on the drive countershaft (or should that just be "shaft"?). Chowed pads by all some accounts, particularly if you were a back brake dragger.

 

Quite a mean dirt bike rider old Horst was/is too in veteran MX.

 

Then he sold the MTB suspension patent to Spez and the rest is history and bickering on the Hub.

 

His company does/did other design and invention work as well, including the first linkage free single shock KTM suspension, maybe still used in some models today.

[Shebeen]

I spent some time in a weskus dorpie over the festive season. never seen so many mtbs there, - seems like bikeriding has replaced rock fishing as the early morning thing to do.

 

about 50% of them were spaz bikes, 30% spaz s-works. love em or hate em, they sure have sold a crapload of premium product.

[GreatGusto]

I was browsing the Hub Classifieds last night and came across quite a few nice Spez road bikes, and I even considered looking at buying one.

 

But I'm OK now.

[PoiZoNouZ]

I just joined the club with a Spez Fatboy.

[Chris NewbyFraser]

Had a Spez road tourer back in 1984. Rode 17000km around USA and Europe.with full cycle touring rig attached. Faultless, Awesome bike!

I now ride Giant Trance...... but would be happy to test a long travel Spez with their new Horst link type suspension.

 

[Sony Boy]

Will sell my Specialized MTB and Roubaix cause there are so many haters out there...NOT!!!

[mikkelz]

Will sell my Specialized MTB and Roubaix cause there are so many haters out there...NOT!!!