A dark Africa lays ahead.....load shedding

[DJR]

Loved this mornings black-out, it silenced the bloody happy clappy church that drives Mrs DJR insane every Sunday!

[Fruity]

You've got to be kidding me!

 

Loadshedding through a Saturday night, before any of the industries are back from December break. This is getting rediculous!

 

We are so screwed.

 

Time for the private sector to say "Screw Eskom" and just get off the grid ASAP

Wouldn't it be quite costly to go off the grid? I assume not everybody would be able to afford that.

 

Here's an article from 2018 I just found:

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/this-is-how-much-it-will-cost-to-take-your-home-off-the-grid-and-avoid-load-shedding-forever-2019-3

[sias]

And I saw a headline that the f.ckers in charge of eksdom believe they are entitled to bonusses to the tune of R1. 2 BILLION!!!

[Fitbull]

Wouldn't it be quite costly to go off the grid? I assume not everybody would be able to afford that.

 

Here's an article from 2018 I just found:

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/this-is-how-much-it-will-cost-to-take-your-home-off-the-grid-and-avoid-load-shedding-forever-2019-3

It seems costly to go off the grid when you look at the cost of installation. Lets say R200 - R300k      depending on the size of your system. If you take this amount and add it to you bond over 20 years and compare what you are paying monthly to Eishkom it works out at pretty much the same cost, provided you own your own home of course......

 

The upside is you no longer have to put up with their crap loadshedding and price increases every year so you know what you are in for in the long term.

 

Yes you might have to do maintenance and possibly replace solar panels and batteries after 20 years but the technology is only getting better and cheaper.  So if you save the extra money you would have paid eishkom in price increases over that 20 years to renew your system/perform maintenance will cost far less in the end and you have no agro.

[Karman de Lange]

It seems costly to go off the grid when you look at the cost of installation. Lets say R200 - R300k      depending on the size of your system. If you take this amount and add it to you bond over 20 years and compare what you are paying monthly to Eishkom it works out at pretty much the same cost, provided you own your own home of course......

 

The upside is you no longer have to put up with their crap loadshedding and price increases every year so you know what you are in for in the long term.

 

Yes you might have to do maintenance and possibly replace solar panels and batteries after 20 years but the technology is only getting better and cheaper.  So if you save the extra money you would have paid eishkom in price increases over that 20 years to renew your system/perform maintenance will cost far less in the end and you have no agro.

 

If you go good quality  lithium battery, its a new battery bank in theory every 20 years.   the normal AGM/Gell/lead acid crap that everyone sells lasts about 1-3 years off grid , they cannot handle the cycles.   Proper Lead acid packs will last about 10 years, but they are a maintenance nightmare.

 

Most houses cannot go of the grid without a MAJOR mental shift. You need to use less than 500 kwh/month to make going off grid viable. No more running electric heaters, just putting the dishwasher on with the vacuum and the kettle etc.

 

a R300k system will give you about ~300 kwh/month in reality, unless you run the generator often.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Karman de Lange

[Fitbull]

If you go good quality  lithium battery, its a new battery bank in theory every 20 years.   the normal AGM/Gell/lead acid crap that everyone sells lasts about 1-3 years off grid , they cannot handle the cycles.   Proper Lead acid packs will last about 10 years, but they are a maintenance nightmare.

 

Most houses cannot go of the grid without a MAJOR mental shift. You need to use less than 500 kwh/month to make going off grid viable. No more running electric heaters, just putting the dishwasher on with the vacuum and the kettle etc.

 

a R300k system will give you about ~300 kwh/month in reality, unless you run the generator often.

Yes definitely talking going lithium batteries here, going for the other batteries just doesnt make sense. Maybe cheaper at the start but works out for more expensive in the long run.

 

Im also not talking about going completely off grid here but you would definitely have enough to power your home 90% of the time and when you want to use that heater and kettle and toaster etc you can always still draw power from the grid.... if its available. 

[Karman de Lange]

Yes definitely talking going lithium batteries here, going for the other batteries just doesnt make sense. Maybe cheaper at the start but works out for more expensive in the long run.

 

Im also not talking about going completely off grid here but you would definitely have enough to power your home 90% of the time and when you want to use that heater and kettle and toaster etc you can always still draw power from the grid.... if its available. 

 

If you  want to stay on the grid, just get ~3kwh usable battery bank (thats about 5kwh lithium) and at least 5kw peak inverter. (5kw Victron quattro is my suggestion, I won't go with cheap aspect/mecers etc)  Our 3kw inverter is touch to small, but we getting better at remembering not to switch all on at same time.  

This should be enough for 2hrs of normal house usage (cooking etc).  and about 1.5hrs recharge time.

 

 

your biggest "hidden" cost is the Electrician if you cannot do it yourself.  They milk the cow at the moment, I would guess you going to pay about R30k installation now.  

Edited January 6, 2020 by Karman de Lange

[samson99]

If you  want to stay on the grid, just get ~3kwh usable battery bank (thats about 5kwh lithium) and at least 5kw peak inverter. (5kw Victron quattro is my suggestion, I won't go with cheap aspect/mecers etc)  Our 3kw inverter is touch to small, but we getting better at remembering not to switch all on at same time.  

This should be enough for 2hrs of normal house usage (cooking etc).  and about 1.5hrs recharge time.

 

 

your biggest "hidden" cost is the Electrician if you cannot do it yourself.  They milk the cow at the moment, I would guess you going to pay about R30k installation now.  

 

Interesting post Karman.

Could you send more information, ie what type of inverter and batteries, etc. 

[Karman de Lange]

Interesting post Karman.

Could you send more information, ie what type of inverter and batteries, etc. 

 

Inverter, I will always go with Victron.  Ja, they expensive, but service is excellent and been around for ages.

 

Check the Victron Quattro 5000 (you can connect generator to it as well) . 

 

(https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/vic-quattro-48-5000-70-100-100?variant=7291443773502&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-19&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiA0svwBRBhEiwAHqKjFuzBABIZZRGHecDNE2e6gYgveX8lM-41ZdJGMfvf8djzRyGDeCGmuxoCD8IQAvD_BwE)    

 

Battery, sorry, cannot really help there, there is tons of available now, think there local company that does packs as well.  I did our system about 4 years ago, things changes alot since then.... 

 

I see here a option, need two of these:  https://thepowerstore.co.za/collections/storage-systems/products/pylon-us2000b-plus-2-4kwh-li-ion-battery-excl-brackets

 

so for about R100k  you should be able to run for about 2-3 hrs . probably get away with less if you do lot of research and shop around.  

 

you can always go with 2kw inverter, with half the battery bank and later upgrade (victron can run the same model inverters in parallel to give more power).  

[samson99]

Inverter, I will always go with Victron.  Ja, they expensive, but service is excellent and been around for ages.

 

Check the Victron Quattro 5000 (you can connect generator to it as well) . 

 

(https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/vic-quattro-48-5000-70-100-100?variant=7291443773502&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-19&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiA0svwBRBhEiwAHqKjFuzBABIZZRGHecDNE2e6gYgveX8lM-41ZdJGMfvf8djzRyGDeCGmuxoCD8IQAvD_BwE)    

 

Battery, sorry, cannot really help there, there is tons of available now, think there local company that does packs as well.  I did our system about 4 years ago, things changes alot since then.... 

 

I see here a option, need two of these:  https://thepowerstore.co.za/collections/storage-systems/products/pylon-us2000b-plus-2-4kwh-li-ion-battery-excl-brackets

 

so for about R100k  you should be able to run for about 2-3 hrs . probably get away with less if you do lot of research and shop around.  

 

you can always go with 2kw inverter, with half the battery bank and later upgrade (victron can run the same model inverters in parallel to give more power).  

 

Thanks Karman. Appreciate it 

[Slowbee]

With us in the cape, wind generators, together with solar panels, should keep the batteries going.

 

Edit: Have to add to Samson 99

 

Thanks for the info Karman

[Vetplant]

We are not the only ones who need to adapt away from the old Power Utility model:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2020/01/01/amid-shut-off-woes-beacon-energy/?arc404=true

[Karman de Lange]

With us in the cape, wind generators, together with solar panels, should keep the batteries going.

 

Edit: Have to add to Samson 99

 

Thanks for the info Karman

wind dont work in urban, you need about 4m turbine with clean average 20km/h wind to cover base load.   (400w)  Thats a massive turbine..

 

  It works where there is big open areas with constant wind speeds .  

 

   Lot easier to buy more panels and battery.

[Ozzie NL]

Inverter, I will always go with Victron.  Ja, they expensive, but service is excellent and been around for ages.

 

Check the Victron Quattro 5000 (you can connect generator to it as well) . 

 

(https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/vic-quattro-48-5000-70-100-100?variant=7291443773502&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-19&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiA0svwBRBhEiwAHqKjFuzBABIZZRGHecDNE2e6gYgveX8lM-41ZdJGMfvf8djzRyGDeCGmuxoCD8IQAvD_BwE)    

 

Battery, sorry, cannot really help there, there is tons of available now, think there local company that does packs as well.  I did our system about 4 years ago, things changes alot since then.... 

 

I see here a option, need two of these:  https://thepowerstore.co.za/collections/storage-systems/products/pylon-us2000b-plus-2-4kwh-li-ion-battery-excl-brackets

 

so for about R100k  you should be able to run for about 2-3 hrs . probably get away with less if you do lot of research and shop around.  

 

you can always go with 2kw inverter, with half the battery bank and later upgrade (victron can run the same model inverters in parallel to give more power).  

Paid R80k for 6Kw inverter with 8 battery bank which keeps the house running for min 6h (never stressed this but 6h is longest we had it run it). Did look at Lithium batteries but unlike other onions found that the price is at least 3x gel batteries and I am not convinced they will last 3x longer.

[splat]

Inverter, I will always go with Victron. Ja, they expensive, but service is excellent and been around for ages.

 

Check the Victron Quattro 5000 (you can connect generator to it as well) .

 

(https://thepowerstore.co.za/products/vic-quattro-48-5000-70-100-100?variant=7291443773502&currency=ZAR&utm_campaign=gs-2018-09-19&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAiA0svwBRBhEiwAHqKjFuzBABIZZRGHecDNE2e6gYgveX8lM-41ZdJGMfvf8djzRyGDeCGmuxoCD8IQAvD_BwE)

 

Battery, sorry, cannot really help there, there is tons of available now, think there local company that does packs as well. I did our system about 4 years ago, things changes alot since then....

 

I see here a option, need two of these: https://thepowerstore.co.za/collections/storage-systems/products/pylon-us2000b-plus-2-4kwh-li-ion-battery-excl-brackets

 

so for about R100k you should be able to run for about 2-3 hrs . probably get away with less if you do lot of research and shop around.

 

you can always go with 2kw inverter, with half the battery bank and later upgrade (victron can run the same model inverters in parallel to give more power).

 

Changing all lights to LED is a bit of an additional cost, but also needs to be done.

 

Definitely not an off-grid system, but will soften the impact:

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/116861-boast-about-your-latest-purchases-here/page-811?do=findComment&comment=3596322

Edited January 6, 2020 by splat

[Karman de Lange]

Paid R80k for 6Kw inverter with 8 battery bank which keeps the house running for min 6h (never stressed this but 6h is longest we had it run it). Did look at Lithium batteries but unlike other onions found that the price is at least 3x gel batteries and I am not convinced they will last 3x longer.

 

Gell cells last about  300 cycles if you use 50% DOD.  so thats about 1 year off grid.  With load shedding, you don't really use 50%, guess more 30-40% if sized correct , so should last about 1000 load shedding cycles before noticing big capacity drop.  Mine lasted 3 years  before they had about 20% capacity left.

 

Good Lead acid (those very big 2v cells) is about 5000 cycles if you don't skimp on maintenance(weekly refills, balance etc) and you are religious with charge/discharge strategy.

 

lithium , if you don't keep them fully charged (lithium degrade alot above 80% charged) you get about 5000 cycles at 50% DOD before reaching 70% capacity (so only lost 30% of capacity) .. no maintenance etc .

So in reality , they should last a very long time if you oversize your bank.

 

Just on that note: Solar panels is rated for 20 years, that means after 20years you have 80% of rated output still available.   its not that they stop working, they simply don't perform at  100% anymore.   So they should last longer than we can use them.  

 

 

So , in summary :  If you don't use battery alot (grid connected backup system) then lead acid (gell/agm etc) is a option, but If we go into daily load shedding or you want off grid, they not going to last very long and lithium is the go to option. (been there, done that)

Edited January 6, 2020 by Karman de Lange