Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[b-rad]

On 3/8/2025 at 7:57 AM, SwissVan said:

First thing that came to mind was how will this work for the various cut off times and most importantly the finish cut off?
 

For us long term comrades spectators it could result in a somewhat confusing and lack luster cut off / finish

IMHO they should not mess with the current formula, I.e. don’t fork with something that works

Agreed. It could become rather confusing. And confusion means viewers lose interest.

I agree. Keep it as it was. The race is unique in the mass start and gun to mat timing and the traditions and different medals. By trying to change it there is the possibility it just becomes another big run, almost like the big marathons with multiple starts going on. And to be quite honest those lack in atmosphere and vibe a big way compared to Comrades.

The new start process will still see loads of people trying to jump batches (in this case from wave 2 to 1). Because as much as Comrades brag about a reduced time to cross the start line from about 8min for previous start process to the expected time of 5min people will still try jump across. As a side note South Africans are perhaps some of the more selfish and ill disciplined bunch when it comes to start line discipline I have seen.
The time taken to cross the start line could very very easily be reduced to nothing if less time is spent dilly-dallying at water tables and chatting to mates along the route anyway. 

It will be very very tricky to separate finishers into the different wave finishes particularly if there is a big bus of both wave 1 and 2 finishers. As much as some marshals will understand the importance of this, many marshals are quite frankly clueless and have no idea. Then a big question and area I see will see big confusion is the cutoffs. Who will sneak through and who will be stopped for no valid reason? Wave 1 runner possibly only starting in wave 2 but being pulled off at a cutoff incorrectly. 

The numbers they are hoping to achieve for the 100th are quite unrealistic I feel. Sure they might get high numbers of entries (revenue goals maybe?) but nowhere close to that will actually line up. And if the entire start process and potentially traditions are being adjusted just for that event I feel like Comrades are moving in the wrong direction.

Is more revenue through more entries the goal? If so, I think that’s shortsighted thinking. One could quite easily achieve significantly more sponsorship money by growing the international stature and exposure of the event. And at the same time keep the numbers similar to that of the past few years. Better, more available tv coverage, and attract the big names from the around the world. This attracts the sponsors. 
Growth just for the sake of growth (by participant numbers) is not necessarily growth is it.. 

 

[Shebeen]

I don't think you've looked past the headline. A lot of your questions and concerns are answered by the later press release on this issue which is actually labelled a FAQ

https://comrades.com/blog/posts/faq-comrades2025-two-starts

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

Agreed. It could become rather confusing. And confusion means viewers lose interest.

I agree. Keep it as it was. The race is unique in the mass start and gun to mat timing and the traditions and different medals. By trying to change it there is the possibility it just becomes another big run, almost like the big marathons with multiple starts going on. And to be quite honest those lack in atmosphere and vibe a big way compared to Comrades.

logistics. the field was already too big to handle from PMB start. It's two seperate waves with all the bells and whistles twice - if you consider a ~10 000+ person mass start as "just another big run" then you have travelled much wider than me.

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

The new start process will still see loads of people trying to jump batches (in this case from wave 2 to 1). Because as much as Comrades brag about a reduced time to cross the start line from about 8min for previous start process to the expected time of 5min people will still try jump across. As a side note South Africans are perhaps some of the more selfish and ill disciplined bunch when it comes to start line discipline I have seen.

should be very easy to identify people jumping ahead as the race numbers will be different colours. As this is effectively cheating 15minutes, thinking they will turn a blind eye to this shows you haven't been watching this space much (they are pretty much the only race that names and shames their naughty boys).

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

The time taken to cross the start line could very very easily be reduced to nothing if less time is spent dilly-dallying at water tables and chatting to mates along the route anyway. 

this makes zero sense.

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

It will be very very tricky to separate finishers into the different wave finishes particularly if there is a big bus of both wave 1 and 2 finishers. As much as some marshals will understand the importance of this, many marshals are quite frankly clueless and have no idea. Then a big question and area I see will see big confusion is the cutoffs. Who will sneak through and who will be stopped for no valid reason? Wave 1 runner possibly only starting in wave 2 but being pulled off at a cutoff incorrectly. 

sure. planned for accordingly. essentially two medal tables.

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

The numbers they are hoping to achieve for the 100th are quite unrealistic I feel. Sure they might get high numbers of entries (revenue goals maybe?) but nowhere close to that will actually line up. And if the entire start process and potentially traditions are being adjusted just for that event I feel like Comrades are moving in the wrong direction.

how do you know that. 23 000 sold out. I have spoken to people who are gearing up to return to the race just for it.

 

2 hours ago, b-rad said:

Is more revenue through more entries the goal? If so, I think that’s shortsighted thinking. One could quite easily achieve significantly more sponsorship money by growing the international stature and exposure of the event. And at the same time keep the numbers similar to that of the past few years. Better, more available tv coverage, and attract the big names from the around the world. This attracts the sponsors. 
Growth just for the sake of growth (by participant numbers) is not necessarily growth is it.. 

cool. you can do both.

[b-rad]

21 hours ago, Shebeen said:

 

Quote

I don't think you've looked past the headline. A lot of your questions and concerns are answered by the later press release on this issue which is actually labelled a FAQ

https://comrades.com/blog/posts/faq-comrades2025-two-starts

I did see the FAQ thanks. Doesn’t mean one has to agree with the changes just because of some answers. 
 

Quote

logistics. the field was already too big to handle from PMB start. It's two seperate waves with all the bells and whistles twice - if you consider a ~10 000+ person mass start as "just another big run" then you have travelled much wider than me.

Was it? Or was it just the first few km that get a bit congested? The last down run in 2023 was a problem at the sharp right into Epworth Rd and left into Isabel Beardmore Drive. Maybe the route out on N3 and into Market Rd like in 2022 is a better option anyway? And hopefully CMA still put up better lighting there regardless (and down Pollys too anyway). Whether it’s the later start or not. That was lacking in the past. 
What I mean by just another big run. The mass starts split into different waves in the big events have a vibe. No doubt. But the single mass start, non-wave event of Comrades creates a vibe like no other. It’s that singular gun going. Maybe the new format changes nothing or perhaps it creates a different feeling. Who knows. 
 

Quote

should be very easy to identify people jumping ahead as the race numbers will be different colours. As this is effectively cheating 15minutes, thinking they will turn a blind eye to this shows you haven't been watching this space much (they are pretty much the only race that names and shames their naughty boys).

There’s a difference between threatening transgressions and actually taking action. If it weren’t for a few notable individuals raising awareness of cheats and particularly raising awareness of multiple offenders, I’m not sure much would have been done. I’m very glad such folk exist to spend the time finding cheats. Has there been improvement on dealing with offenders? Perhaps in the very recent past, but we’ve all seen how a blind eye is so often turned. 
I just wish for immediate repercussions to cheating. Big or small offence. Someone jumps a fence into a higher batch it should be on the spot disqualification. End of. Someone is found with a doctored batch letter. Again. Immediate on the spot disqualification. 
Cheats will find a way to cheat regardless of which format of race start is used, that’s true. All I wish for is a strict enforcement of rules. 
 

Quote

this makes zero sense.

Point taken. It doesn’t. To clarify. People worried about taking 8 minutes or 5 minutes, or 10 minutes, or whatever time it is to cross the start line, should rather focus on not wasting time in other parts of the route. That time lost at the start line is the least of the issues in the bigger picture of the 86km. 
 

Quote

how do you know that. 23 000 sold out. I have spoken to people who are gearing up to return to the race just for it.

I don’t know it. Find me someone who does.
Selling out entries to events these days is pretty easy though. We see it at just about every big event. But for Comrades to get the numbers they want for the 2027 race they will need to attract internationals in a big way. 
Comrades 2023 had just over 22500 entries and only 18800 (just over) started. It’d be a massive jump up to the 35000 entries being talked about. Bigger is better? 
 

[Vetplant]

Long podcast, but very insightful on the topic of Sprinting, covers many running aspects.

 

[IceCreamMan]

Barclay marathon on the go. 

[IceCreamMan]

I doubt there will be finishers this year. 
 

[ChrisF]

As I spend more time outside with Park Walks my Garmin VivoActive4 battery is struggling to keep up.

 

PS - It most certainly is delivering the "GPS hours" as advertised, I am simply using that up too quickly ... struggling to get two full days between charges.

 

Would love to know which watches the runners use.  Ideally still in the Garmin eco-system.

 

When looking at the Garmin Instinct series ...

. The 50mm version seems to have a LOT more battery time than the 45mm

. Wondering how the "solar" versions work in real life .... does it actually assist in a longer battery life ?

. Where do they "hide" the solar panel ?

. Thus far most sites just show the "battery time in smart mode" ... any idea of the "battery time in GPS mode" ?  (I will continue to search and update this line when I get this information)

. Should add I am not fussed about storing music on the watch.  Interesting how "some features" are kept for the more $$$ models ...

 

 

 

 

As a side note ....

. From the VivoActive 4/5 to the Venu 3 is a nice jump in "smart functions"

. Going from the VivoActive 4/5 to the Instinct 3 no extra "smart functions", but a step up in sports functions.

 

Thankfully I am not pushing the boundaries on the smart functions.

[ChrisF]

54 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

As I spend more time outside with Park Walks my Garmin VivoActive4 battery is struggling to keep up.

 

PS - It most certainly is delivering the "GPS hours" as advertised, I am simply using that up too quickly ... struggling to get two full days between charges.

 

Would love to know which watches the runners use.  Ideally still in the Garmin eco-system.

 

When looking at the Garmin Instinct series ...

. The 50mm version seems to have a LOT more battery time than the 45mm

. Wondering how the "solar" versions work in real life .... does it actually assist in a longer battery life ?

. Where do they "hide" the solar panel ?

. Thus far most sites just show the "battery time in smart mode" ... any idea of the "battery time in GPS mode" ?  (I will continue to search and update this line when I get this information)

. Should add I am not fussed about storing music on the watch.  Interesting how "some features" are kept for the more $$$ models ...

 

 

 

 

As a side note ....

. From the VivoActive 4/5 to the Venu 3 is a nice jump in "smart functions"

. Going from the VivoActive 4/5 to the Instinct 3 no extra "smart functions", but a step up in sports functions.

 

Thankfully I am not pushing the boundaries on the smart functions.

 

Found a nice break down of expeced battery time on Garmin's manual -

 

 

In short, going from 5 hours "GPS time" on a VivoActive to at least 34 hours.  Using solar the time could be much longer ....

 

 

Which begs the question - what other functions do the runners suggest I should consider .... Though battery time is an important part of this discussion, I dont want to get blind sided because I may have tunnel vision at the moment.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Edited March 20 by ChrisF

[IceCreamMan]

16 hours ago, IceCreamMan said:

I doubt there will be finishers this year. 
 

As predicted no finishers but one guy completed the fun run. What a beast of a course this year but given last years results no surprises it got tougher. 

[IceCreamMan]

5 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

Found a nice break down of expeced battery time on Garmin's manual -

 

 

In short, going from 5 hours "GPS time" on a VivoActive to at least 34 hours.  Using solar the time could be much longer ....

 

 

Which begs the question - what other functions do the runners suggest I should consider .... Though battery time is an important part of this discussion, I dont want to get blind sided because I may have tunnel vision at the moment.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Unashamed garmin groupie here. 
 

They just work, and work so well. Always had a garmin but moved to enduro this iteration as I don’t need amoled and I won’t be doing any diving any time soon ( read ever) so left the fenix family and got Enduro 3. The battery life is astounding and the new  solar “panel” works extremely well. ( amoled does not have solar either). Solar is essentially a ring around the face. Solar works way better than it did on the 7 and a few Sundays ago the battery percentage increased by 2 percent after a day in the sun at a picnic. Never seen that before.  But if solar is ultimately worthwhile is up to you. In my case I thought it would be ( even though I live in uk 😂 ) I just like battery life even if I will never do an event that justifies hundreds of hours of battery life. 
 

In my opinion the battery life advertised is generally quite close if not on the money as per the garmin website so its trustworthy.

if you want flash screen, amoled. If not the instinct is a very viable offering. It will do everything you need it to do at a good price.

 
 

I went large (51) a few iterations ago, was apprehensive at first as I have thin ish wrists but one gets used to it very quickly and now will keep to that size, the improved battery life is worth it. 

[Shebeen]

39 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

Unashamed garmin groupie here. 
 

They just work, and work so well. Always had a garmin but moved to enduro this iteration as I don’t need amoled and I won’t be doing any diving any time soon ( read ever) so left the fenix family and got Enduro 3. The battery life is astounding and the new  solar “panel” works extremely well. ( amoled does not have solar either). Solar is essentially a ring around the face. Solar works way better than it did on the 7 and a few Sundays ago the battery percentage increased by 2 percent after a day in the sun at a picnic. Never seen that before.  But if solar is ultimately worthwhile is up to you. In my case I thought it would be ( even though I live in uk 😂 ) I just like battery life even if I will never do an event that justifies hundreds of hours of battery life. 
 

In my opinion the battery life advertised is generally quite close if not on the money as per the garmin website so its trustworthy.

if you want flash screen, amoled. If not the instinct is a very viable offering. It will do everything you need it to do at a good price.

 
 

I went large (51) a few iterations ago, was apprehensive at first as I have thin ish wrists but one gets used to it very quickly and now will keep to that size, the improved battery life is worth it. 

 

Garmin SA seem to be dropping the ball. heard a few grumblings off line too when things go wrong they used to be fixed chop chop.

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, IceCreamMan said:

Unashamed garmin groupie here. 
 

They just work, and work so well. Always had a garmin but moved to enduro this iteration as I don’t need amoled and I won’t be doing any diving any time soon ( read ever) so left the fenix family and got Enduro 3. The battery life is astounding and the new  solar “panel” works extremely well. ( amoled does not have solar either). Solar is essentially a ring around the face. Solar works way better than it did on the 7 and a few Sundays ago the battery percentage increased by 2 percent after a day in the sun at a picnic. Never seen that before.  But if solar is ultimately worthwhile is up to you. In my case I thought it would be ( even though I live in uk 😂 ) I just like battery life even if I will never do an event that justifies hundreds of hours of battery life. 
 

In my opinion the battery life advertised is generally quite close if not on the money as per the garmin website so its trustworthy.

if you want flash screen, amoled. If not the instinct is a very viable offering. It will do everything you need it to do at a good price.

 
 

I went large (51) a few iterations ago, was apprehensive at first as I have thin ish wrists but one gets used to it very quickly and now will keep to that size, the improved battery life is worth it. 

 

Thank you

 

Had to smile at a few things that ring too true 😋

 

I am doing a 4 hour event in May.  Would suck big time if the VivoActive battery decides to not last .... sounds like a perfectly good excuse, sorry, reason to upgrade.

 

Seems the GPS use battery time of the Amoled version and the MIP Solar versions are very similar.  Sure, the Solar has longer smart watch battery time.

 

 

Do you have any practical experience of Amoled vs Solar screens ?

 

Seems the market is moving to Amoled.

[shaper]

I picked up a Garmin 255 for R3k on FB marketplace and it was only 6 months old.  I had a F945 for 5yrs, it was bomb proof as a triathlete doing 3 disciplines almost daily.  I wanted something which recorded HRV and a few other health metrics etc as the F945 didn't and could not justify upgrading to the F955 or F965.  I don't need the maps, or the Amoled, so happily downgraded to a 255, with slightly less battery (minimal) and no maps, but still capable of doing a full Ironman event and having plenty of battery.  And I now have additional health metrics that I can monitor.  

[IceCreamMan]

38 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Thank you

 

Had to smile at a few things that ring too true 😋

 

I am doing a 4 hour event in May.  Would suck big time if the VivoActive battery decides to not last .... sounds like a perfectly good excuse, sorry, reason to upgrade.

 

Seems the GPS use battery time of the Amoled version and the MIP Solar versions are very similar.  Sure, the Solar has longer smart watch battery time.

 

 

Do you have any practical experience of Amoled vs Solar screens ?

 

Seems the market is moving to Amoled.

Yeah, amoled seems to be the screen of choice these days. I prefer the less flash screens as I don’t need amoled for a watch. When not in use I use it as a watch and it works just fine and has all the health stats that it tracks which is important to me.

all the other smart watches are amoled these days, Apple, Samsung etc. I hope garmin keeps the old fashioned screens on enduro range indefinitely. 
 

my mate has a fenix 8 and we compared , look, no 2 ways about it, the screen is lush but it’s a feature I don’t need. 

[ChrisF]

19 minutes ago, shaper said:

I picked up a Garmin 255 for R3k on FB marketplace and it was only 6 months old.  I had a F945 for 5yrs, it was bomb proof as a triathlete doing 3 disciplines almost daily.  I wanted something which recorded HRV and a few other health metrics etc as the F945 didn't and could not justify upgrading to the F955 or F965.  I don't need the maps, or the Amoled, so happily downgraded to a 255, with slightly less battery (minimal) and no maps, but still capable of doing a full Ironman event and having plenty of battery.  And I now have additional health metrics that I can monitor.  

 

Very nice watch 👍

[shaper]

37 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Very nice watch 👍

The guy sold it because he had to have knee op and changed to an Apple watch.  So I got it for a bargain. I have had it for 4 months now with full training for racing IMSA next week.  Have had no problems with it and heavy usage in the last 6 weeks, so lots of GPS use and charge about once a week.  I do use an Edge 130 plus for cycling, so has been mainly used for running, open water swimming and as my watch.

Edited March 20 by shaper