Stretch Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 THE LONG RUN...Slow or Tempo - the debate that will go on forever I have always done my long runs at Tempo pace, but I have this year been doing some research into the whole Slow run philosophy. In my quest to get a sub 3:10 marathon, I pulled down a sub 3:15 marathon plan from runners world (https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/a760128/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-315/). Outside of 2 weekends (both sub 90 half marathons) all the weekend runs are long and slow (like well over 5:00/km slow). I have been reading the literature and I get the benefit of the slow long for aerobic strength etc...but i have also read that the one thing that marathon runners dont do enough of is a few long high tempo runs. This plan has none of those (except for those 2 fast 21's). What does everyone generally do? Slow long runs or tempo long runs? any outside knowledge you wish to impart?
Raab Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 THE LONG RUN...Slow or Tempo - the debate that will go on forever I have always done my long runs at Tempo pace, but I have this year been doing some research into the whole Slow run philosophy. In my quest to get a sub 3:10 marathon, I pulled down a sub 3:15 marathon plan from runners world (https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/a760128/rws-ultimate-marathon-schedule-sub-315/). Outside of 2 weekends (both sub 90 half marathons) all the weekend runs are long and slow (like well over 5:00/km slow). I have been reading the literature and I get the benefit of the slow long for aerobic strength etc...but i have also read that the one thing that marathon runners dont do enough of is a few long high tempo runs. This plan has none of those (except for those 2 fast 21's). What does everyone generally do? Slow long runs or tempo long runs? any outside knowledge you wish to impart? I have also heard both sides of the argument many times before, I can speak to what has worked for me in the last 5/6 months. In the past I have struggled with getting my average pace and race day pace up, I think this was as a result of attributing the wrong objective to my long runs. I used to view the long run as an opportunity to increase my weekly mileage, I now view the long run as an opportunity to recover from the week's mileage and test my mental ability to continue running on tired legs. Generally my long run is 10% - 15% slower than my average pace. However to supplement the above, all my runs during the week are at a high tempo (including hill repeat days). I have noticed a dramatic improvement in my average pace (that pace that you can run without checking your watch or without feeling like your legs are holding you back). In the last 5 months I have improved my average pace from approx 6min/ km for a 21km to just slightly above 5min / km average for the same distance. My 2c. Stretch, Lexx and Hacc 3
dave303e Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Some long runs are slow, but some days I mark for long run but hammer down. I literally try run till the wheels come off and then go into survival mode to get home from there... I like doing races as longer runs, forces the tempo a bit having rabbits. Stretch 1
shaper Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) In a 6 months run-up to OMTOM I decided on the slow run philosophy for my long weekend runs, all were at 10% slower than my goal pace of 5:45m/km. My aim was a sub 6hr OMTOM which I achieved, so worked out pretty well. The only time this changed was for IM EL70.3 race. Even 21km races in JHB at the weekends in that period I just ran slowly and was not too worried about the time and used them as training runs. I have found that this has given me a great base for races and am now back to speed work during the week whilst keeping the LSD weekend runs slow. Post OMTOM I have had no problem racing at pace and did a PB at IM Durbs70.3 recently. Since IM Durbs 70.3 these winter months am on a program to bring my 21km from 1:45hr to sub 1:30 (and eventually a 3:15 3:30hr CPT marathon later in the year).. On the workouts that am doing so far the tempo or VO2 max runs/intervals am having no problem doing them and actually feel strong. I have also noticed that on my tempo runs my HR pretty much is Z2 or lower with a lot in Z1. I use a Stryd running power meter, so my training zones are based on power (which can equate to speed) and not on HR. So in essence am running faster with less effort from having a good base from the slow running. My metabolic fitness and muscle endurance are now very good from all the slow long runs and am feeling my muscle power increasing quickly from having the good base. By default or just good luck, I think the long slow runs work for me.... so will be sticking with it. Edited June 12, 2019 by shaper tjommies3, Stretch, ScottCM and 1 other 4
SeaBee Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I'm also in this situation where I was at a recent workshop with the Greylings and they also belief in polarized training. With most run being laughable slow and then hard interval days. Read the other day a general guideline ito pace is that it should be about... from memory 110-120% of marathon pace. That is scary slow... And Landie also stated that in the beginning you'll have to walk at times, just not to go over that thresholds. So that margin (from a different source) seems to be reasonably correct. I still have to get around to do it. I go slow, but to go that slow just feels wrong. But I might very well give it a shot later in winter and see what gives. At this stage it feels like I'll get too cold by running that slow! Problem is, I also don't do the interval days, though I do have the perfect situation for that. So if I do that, I presume the slow day thereafter will make sense. Stretch 1
b-rad Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 Have been looking through the Comrades results. Great performance by Doris Fisha in the ladies race. Started in G batch and finished in 24th overall in 7h20. It took her 7min30 to cross the start line. Andrew Steer, candz1, tjommies3 and 2 others 5
Andrew Steer Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) Have been looking through the Comrades results. Great performance by Doris Fisha in the ladies race. Started in G batch and finished in 24th overall in 7h20. It took her 7min30 to cross the start line.Why was she in G? That's a seriously impressive run.Also, she's South African but not linked to a club, I didn't think that was allowed... Edited June 14, 2019 by Andrew Steer
Stretch Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) Why was she in G? That's a seriously impressive run.Also, she's South African but not linked to a club, I didn't think that was allowed...You don't need to be affiliated to a club as a South African...I may be wrong though. No.. I'm wrong. Have to be asa registered Edited June 14, 2019 by Stretch Andrew Steer 1
Jewbacca Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 I'm also in this situation where I was at a recent workshop with the Greylings and they also belief in polarized training. With most run being laughable slow and then hard interval days. Read the other day a general guideline ito pace is that it should be about... from memory 110-120% of marathon pace. That is scary slow... And Landie also stated that in the beginning you'll have to walk at times, just not to go over that thresholds. So that margin (from a different source) seems to be reasonably correct. I still have to get around to do it. I go slow, but to go that slow just feels wrong. But I might very well give it a shot later in winter and see what gives. At this stage it feels like I'll get too cold by running that slow! Problem is, I also don't do the interval days, though I do have the perfect situation for that. So if I do that, I presume the slow day thereafter will make sense. It's a long process. Not something you can just do for 8 weeks and expect to see results. Months of discipline. I don't have that, nor do I ride or run for any sort of result. I find running, be it trail or road' is best enjoyed. I don't see the point in spending hours of free time doing something I'm not enjoying. Being up in the mountains and worrying about my pace seems contrary to why I enjoy being up there 5 days a week. But that's just me.
gifs Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 Updated my trail run events database with the HEX SkyRun event: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZM_nEQvhC_oaNyJRws5Sd66OTawZRzzmAeYxKWgA6YY/edit?usp=sharing KiddiMat, Raab, ScottCM and 1 other 4
Edgar Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 Have been looking through the Comrades results. Great performance by Doris Fisha in the ladies race. Started in G batch and finished in 24th overall in 7h20. It took her 7min30 to cross the start line. She came flying past us looking really strong and focused, I think it was around umlaas road. Lexx 1
Lexx Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 Anybody else struggling with their Asthma this winter like myself. Jeez, its been a struggle since the winter started.
Jaws677 Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Anybody else struggling with their Asthma this winter like myself. Jeez, its been a struggle since the winter started.Wow I didn't realise it was common thingI developed it for the first time in my life last year. Luckily the prescribed inhaler sorts me out within a few minutes. My only occurs in cold air running Edited June 16, 2019 by Jaws677 Lexx 1
Lexx Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 Wow I didn't realise it was common thingI developed it for the first time in my life last year. Luckily the prescribed inhaler sorts me out within a few minutes. My only occurs in cold air runningUnfortunately I've had it my whole life. But there must be something in the air this year. 2nd time in 2 Months I went back to the doc with my Asthma
Mudsimus Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 Anybody else struggling with their Asthma this winter like myself. Jeez, its been a struggle since the winter started.I had it real bad March/April, much better now. During change of seasons I can't run without a few puffs before setting off.
Mudsimus Posted June 16, 2019 Posted June 16, 2019 I cant find my original post regarding the Garmin 735xt battery life. But for those that might be interested, I had 49% left after Comrades. Started on about 98%. Im very impressed with that, even though HR was turned off. I should get 20 hours of tracking with ease.
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