Kevin Evans accepts doping charge

[Patchelicious]

Been saying this a long time on all these threads since the pre-Lance days.

 

If you had to get most of the faster guys in the field (lets say A bunch and Vets) and run some tests on them I predict you would be shocked what you would find. I reckon they could melt the test tubes with some of the concoctions they are using.

 

These guys are cheque book warriors and as such there is no risk to them as you point out. And no real desire to police them as well, because its just recreational sports.

 

A lot of the stories are anecdotal and there are some pretty lurid ones at that, and some are not so anecdotal and you sit there thinking "Did I really see that?"

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

[Tumbleweed]

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

 

One person's hyperbole is another's understatement.

 

The word "most" should maybe be used in moderation.     

[Thor Buttox]

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

I wish we could do a sample of most young PRO's who genuinely think the same thing about the guys around them. And that there are only some who take it too seriously.

 

Human nature is pretty general whether we label people Vets or Pros.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Thor Buttox

[Shebeen]

Question(s). Who was Kevin Evans' coach? Did he have one, was it the same guy for DG at 360Life?

['Dale]

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

There's a few Vets 'out-liers' indeed that has small ego and inferiority complex that need to feel better about themselves.

I would agree that 7 out of 10 really earn their results through hard and smart work in the saddle.

[Shebeen]

 

Just my humble opinion – because it seems everyone has one. The only professionals here are the sports scientists, they are sticking to the facts.

​

I really like the way Ross Tucker goes about his business. He is a clearly a good scientist but even more importantly he is excellent at portraying his thoughts in a logical way that the average bloke can read it.

 

[Paul Ruinaard]

You speak very true things, only part that I don't agree wth is the "most" part.

 

Most VAs dude that I know are just guys having a jol and are probably harmless. But there are some that seem to take it too seriously

Agreed - lets not tar and feather everyone. I retract my most and put in a some.

[DIPSLICK]

tumbles, I know you said something like no comment on what your boeties says, but is there a BROMANCE we need to know about  

[V12man]

I agree with you that measured performance does predict capabilities. But measured against a set of constants. You need to limit the variables to increase accuracy of the measurement.

 

Also, people mustn't now go and assume that I'm claiming that there is no merit in climb comparisons, but if you want to measure climb comparisons you need to take the variables into account.

 

Eg. If Froome climbed Ventoux in 45mins in 2015 during the Tour and again climbed it in 45mins at a training camp in 2016, you cannot with certainty say that his capabilities were identical in both attempts based purely on ascent times. You have to take other factors into consideration.

What you say is true in a certain sense - you have to use a comparable MAX effort from all participants in the test (and an appropriate test) - so during a race you cannot guarantee the efforts will be max efforts - and you don't know on STRAVA either - but as a general rule - guys that are consistently winning STRAVA kom's are generally capable of winning races (this does not mean they will win races as there are other elements to racing like team strategy, pacing, nutrition, etc etc)

 

There is some science too that has shown that speed over shorter distances predicts marathon performance with a high degree of accuracy for example, and there is no doubt that this is consistent even across some different sports - so for example 400m times might be able to be compared to cycling performance capability.

 

I would however not reccomend using mid race strava segments to predict max performance - clearly they are unlikely to be absolute max efforts.

[V12man]

Play nice now boys tomorrow is Friday

Ramping it up for Friday is good....

[Pure Savage]

In terms of marketing value, is a win in a Cape Town race worth more to a sponsor than a kiff oke with a shweet instagram and a awesome brand ambassador. 

 

I know I have bought certain items of kit and entered races etc because local "pros" (I am not sure they are even pro, just post a lot about cycle and ride a lot) 

 

To be honest, I could not tell you who was on the podium of Epic this year, only that he was on a Spez. 

 

I cannot even remember who won the biggest road race last year or the year before, Hoffman or a Bonitas guy? 

 

My point, in SA are results the be all and end all for sponsors?  

 

I have attached some instagram accounts I follow that I am sure produce more AVE than some SA Pros. 

 

https://goo.gl/QheZwD

 

https://goo.gl/WfNTLw

 

https://goo.gl/pSfChk

 

Yes one is an importer but you get the point.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Pure Savage

[V12man]

Cheap is relative. Most South Aftican Pro cyclists probably couldn't afford your monthly coffee bill. Most white collar professionals aged 30-50 (Vets) probably could.

 

Also the risk, if you get caught using HGH at a race, you wouldn't lose your medical license, pro cyclists would.

 

Surely it's not hard to see that the barrier to entry and risks is lower for Vets to dope. Again not saying that they do, but that's it's just less off a mission for them too if they choose to do so. They also have less incentive to do so, it's only competitive nature that drives them, not a need to maintain their jobs, so it's not all against them

From memory - EPO (from the pharmacy) is about 1800 a month for therapeutic doses - and that is manageable for most well to do vets - HGH on the other hand is much more expensive - MUCH.

 

And you are absolutely correct that the barriers to doping for Vets that are already sucessful in business are low - financially fairly low (monthly or long term if you get caught), and unless you are standing on the podium for a major race, then really unlikely to be tested at all.

 

Still - the issues around applying for a KE TUE for ozone therapy are at best dodgy - Ozone is not even on the restricted list - http://list.wada-ama.org/by-substance/#O-group - so why even apply for a TUE - clearly you don't need a TUE for what is not restricted - nor will they even issue one.

[V12man]

I'm not so sure, as I've said many times I am most suspicious of those who shout the most ......

I would be interested to know what this "meeting" was about and exactly who was involved in this potential conspiracy of silence.... - mentioned in one of the clippings earlier....

 

If I had to translate between the lines it sounded like "Why are you blabbing about this? you agreed to be silent on the subject in the meeting, so we don't impact our sponsor/supporter deals" to me...

[Martin PJ]

There's a few Vets 'out-liers' indeed that has small ego and inferiority complex that need to feel better about themselves.

I would agree that 7 out of 10 really earn their results through hard and smart work in the saddle.

 

I agree, I used to ride VA and could stay with the front guys without doping. I was a pretty average cyclist. Now and then you get someone who can destroy the field, either very talented or on something.

 

If I look at how hard the VA's train and how often they race. It is possible for most of them to ride at this level without dope.

[Patchelicious]

From memory - EPO (from the pharmacy) is about 1800 a month for therapeutic doses - and that is manageable for most well to do vets - HGH on the other hand is much more expensive - MUCH.

 

And you are absolutely correct that the barriers to doping for Vets that are already sucessful in business are low - financially fairly low (monthly or long term if you get caught), and unless you are standing on the podium for a major race, then really unlikely to be tested at all.

 

Still - the issues around applying for a KE TUE for ozone therapy are at best dodgy - Ozone is not even on the restricted list - http://list.wada-ama.org/by-substance/#O-group - so why even apply for a TUE - clearly you don't need a TUE for what is not restricted - nor will they even issue one.

This is interesting around the Ozone treatment, for us layman, what is t actually supposed to do?

 

On the Vets doping. It seems that there is a lower emotional barrier to something like HGH in Vets, as older guys seem to justify that because their hormone levels are dropping, that it's not exactly outright cheating to them as there could be real world health benefits to it.

 

What's your take on it?

 

Ps: your coffee bill seems too low, you clearly need to ride more

Edited January 21, 2016 by Patchelicious

[koukie]

In terms of marketing value, is a win in a Cape Town race worth more to a sponsor than a kiff oke with a shweet instagram and a awesome brand ambassador. 

 

I know I have bought certain items of kit and entered races etc because local "pros" (I am not sure they are even pro, just post a lot about cycle and ride a lot) 

 

To be honest, I could not tell you who was on the podium of Epic this year, only that he was on a Spez. 

 

I cannot even remember who won the biggest road race last year or the year before, Hoffman or a Bonitas guy? 

 

My point, in SA are results the be all and end all for sponsors?  

 

I have attached some instagram accounts I follow that I am sure produce more AVE than some SA Pros. 

 

https://goo.gl/QheZwD

 

https://goo.gl/WfNTLw

 

https://goo.gl/pSfChk

 

Yes one is an importer but you get the point.

You okes are doing a good job in terms of marketing value. You dont win races (as far as I know) but your name Pure Savage is stuck in my mind because of your work ethic in the bunch. I dont remember the okes that won the races that we did together I remember the pure savage train that pulled the rest of the bunch.