2017 Tour de France

[Tothehills]

So Cav was sitting on Frencies wheel. Sagan was next to Cav

 

 

[Bub Marley]

If any of you were strong enough to have been a part of this sprint you would know that there will be serious jostling for position and people attempting to take wheels wherever they can in the run up to the finish as every bit of drafting assistance yields massive gains for those final metres.

 

Sagan reacted to Demare sweeping wide to come round and by his own admission knows he was in the wrong to take Cavendish's line away, as he did not anticipate him being there. Why else would he go to the bus to apologise?

 

Was there malice though and did it warrant a DQ? Not in my view. The elbow everyone is fixated on is a non event and from Cavendish's bike hitting Sagan's arm.

Sorry but the elbow is not a non event. He caused the accident by coming accross and basically forcing cavendish into the barriers. Cavendish leans on Sagan because he doesn't have anywhere else to go. Ideally Cav would brake but again you can't just brake in a full blooded sprint as the guy from behind will go straight into you. If Sagan left it like that even with Cav falling, he'd have been docked the points and time but wouldn't have been disqualified. The fact that he threw an elbow, regardless of whether he connected or not, means automatic DQ.

 

I cannot believe people are excusing the elbow because Cav was already going down and because he never connected. It doesn't make a difference. The intent was there and it's the right call.

 

I don't harbour any hate towards Sagan. He's still a favorite of mine but sometimes in the heat of the moment when the adrenaline is pumping you just do stupid things which you regret after. This is one of them. These incidents should be judged on merit not on the persons history. Just because Sagan is a fan favorite does not excuse him from punishment. Had this been any other rider, there would not even be a debate about it.

[Tothehills]

And the Sagan moved to the right

 

 

[Tothehills]

Then Damare moves left, almost taking out Bouhanni.

Bouhanni's left knee is an indication that he had to swerve

 

 

[Gen]

And the Sagan moved to the right

The overhead shows that there was space behind Demare 's wheel..they both went for it..

 

What happened next was madness. . Cav leaning in with his head, Sagan started losing balance the elbow and left leg came out to try regain balance and basically Cav bounced off Sagan..

 

There is a close up video going around (and posted here somewhere) where you can see that happening. .

 

Relegated and points docked sure.. but DQ, no that was harsh.

 

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[Tubehunter]

Sorry but the elbow is not a non event. He caused the accident by coming accross and basically forcing cavendish into the barriers. Cavendish leans on Sagan because he doesn't have anywhere else to go. Ideally Cav would brake but again you can't just brake in a full blooded sprint as the guy from behind will go straight into you. If Sagan left it like that even with Cav falling, he'd have been docked the points and time but wouldn't have been disqualified. The fact that he threw an elbow, regardless of whether he connected or not, means automatic DQ.

 

I cannot believe people are excusing the elbow because Cav was already going down and because he never connected. It doesn't make a difference. The intent was there and it's the right call.

 

I don't harbour any hate towards Sagan. He's still a favorite of mine but sometimes in the heat of the moment when the adrenaline is pumping you just do stupid things which you regret after. This is one of them. These incidents should be judged on merit not on the persons history. Just because Sagan is a fan favorite does not excuse him from punishment. Had this been any other rider, there would not even be a debate about it.

 

Yep Bub, because someone riding into you wont affect your handling at all....

Cav rides into Sagan as he moves across with everyone drifting left trying to take away that channel. Sagan's elbow goes out so that the arm doesn't go forward from the contact and change the steering of the bike with the right hand pushing the bike into an involuntary left turn. 

[Shebeen]

Sagan's elbow is a non event, look at his left knee and you can see it is him just trying to balance on the bike.

 

From the front on view it looks like he's biffed cav, but there is huge day light.

 

Him moving his line is the issue, and I hope that is what the decision was made on. But even that is harsh there is no consistency

[Zatopek]

Also trying to make sense of what happened.

Look at the sequence of pics and make up your own mind

I only see Newton's third law  (and where Cav is ranked on an imaginary momentum hierarchy)

http://nsis5thgrade.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/8/4/24840243/___3470918_orig.png

[Jase619]

SNIP

 

I cannot believe people are excusing the elbow because Cav was already going down and because he never connected. It doesn't make a difference. The intent was there and it's the right call.

 

SNIP

 

Excuse me for nitpicking, but what do you presume his intent was here? I say presume as it is impossible to tell what he actually intended to do here, as we don't know what he was thinking, or whether he was thinking or reacting to the situation.

[nochain]

@tothehills it's a bit frustrating to see people say Cav went for a Gap that was not there...What BS!!Cav was always following Demare and had the line from the start.Sagan was stuck behind other guys and had no choice to force a gap on the right.He went for it and Cav is out of tour because of it.

BUT we see guy change lines all the time and lots of crashes happen because of it.Sending Sagan home is crazy in my opinion.

I think in general we see a "soft" approach to everything these days.Cycling is a hard sport but lately the wind must just be wrong then we stop a race or a crash will send the wrong message and so on. Miss the hardcore days!!

[Gen]

Yep Bub, because someone riding into you wont affect your handling at all....

Cav rides into Sagan as he moves across with everyone drifting left trying to take away that channel. Sagan's elbow goes out so that the arm doesn't go forward from the contact and change the steering of the bike with the right hand pushing the bike into an involuntary left turn.

People only saw the elbow. .in real time it looked bad. . But like everyone, on review you see more..hey wait a minute..this and that happened and this lead to that..

 

If they want to be consistent then everyone but a Greipel and Kristoff involved in that sprint should be DQ .

 

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[Sniffie]

That pic is out of context. Watch the video

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All you can see in that image is Cav leaning with his head on Sagan's hip, Cav letting him know he is there, and obviously trying to open a line for himself. The 'elbow' are only starting to come out. I have looked at all angles available in slow motion and it is pretty clear that Sagan's elbow never even touched Cav. On the overhead shot, and the shot from the front one can see that as Cav's front wheel was in line with Sagan's rear, Cav's bike was all ready at a ridiculous angle. In all the images he never came right alongside Sagan. How could the elbow have caused the crash? Bad decision!

[TALUS]

It is a real pity. The train was full (Cavendish picked the correct wheel early on) and Sagan tried to force his way in. No where to go but barrier then ground for Cav. Sonny Bill is also sorry but it happened and someone got hurt. Maybe a duller but maybe a more unpredictable race for us to follow.

['Kaze Pete]

Looking forward to clean racing for the rest of le tour!

• Sprinters holding their lines
• No "adverse findings"
• Spectators behaving themselves
• Motor bikes not riding in riders
• Riders not hitching rides in team cars
• etc, etc

 

Oh, we can but dream for the sport not to be brought into disrepute!

 

 

oh, and ... hubbers accepting the final, non-appealable decisions of the commissionaires! 

[bertusras]

Him moving his line is the issue, and I hope that is what the decision was made on. But even that is harsh there is no consistency

 

If the DQ is for not holding the line, then the stewards seriously need to look at the trajectory that Demare took throughout the entire sprint.

['Kaze Pete]

If the DQ is for not holding the line, then the stewards seriously need to look at the trajectory that Demare took throughout the entire sprint.

Demare did not cause a crash